Andrew,
 
You described what I meant and was unable to put into so many words ( actually, not that many!):" memories that come unbidden" instead of "specific memories that are sought but not obtained". But your observation that these memories are  "often unwelcome" adds a Freudian dimension that I didnīt find in Proustīs elaborations. 
I think that what HH sought was not a specific memory -  but that  he did seek a specific state of mind that could lead him into the experience of an "aesthetic bliss".
You wrote, in the end of your note: "until the fateful day he winds up in Ramsdale. And there he finds the real thing, of which Annabel was merely simulacrum". 
I cannot agree with you that "Lolita was the real thing"  because I believe, like Freud, that there is no such "real thing"  except the "real loss" of a "some-thing" that always haunts every one of us and which Nabokov could render in such a taunting heartbreaking way in almost all his novels.
 
Jerrie Friedman wrote beautifully about his reading of "Pale Fire" and shared his vision with us where  a "red admiral" became "the" thing. But Friedman also implied a level of apprehension like Taoist Chuang Tzuīs story about having dreamt that he was a butterfly and upon awakening finding himself not as certain as heīd been about who he was: a Chuang Tzu person ? A butterfly dreaming Chuang Tzy? ( i.e: are dreams more real than our conscious vigil-state sense of "I am"?  )

Thinking about movies and Ada, there would never be " a one only real translation/transposition" of VNīs novel. Thatīs not what movies are about ( "transpositions" ), I think.
Concerning "Lolita", for example, film-critic Richard Corliss wrote about Kubrickīs achievement saying that Nabokov had written a extravagantly cinematic screen-play that could only exist on the printed page and  Adrian Lyne's screen-writer, Stephen Schiff, argued that Kubrick's movie tended more to a Quilty than to a Lolita.
Schiff  viewed "Lolita" not as a mere book, but as a jig-saw puzzle, and, in transposing it into film he intended "to write a movie that an audience could take in entirely the first time; I hope that we have achieved something like the effect Nabokov intends after several readings, though our means are entirely different (...) attempting to translate into a kind of exciting sign language - the language of the film - what one of the century's greatest masters of prose rendered so incomparably on the page".    Interviewed by Suellen Stringer-Hye(www.libraries.psu.edu/iasweb/nabokov/schiffl.htm)  
 
What is "really" Ada? Where is the "real Lolita"?
Jansy

----- Forwarded message from as-brown@comcast.net -----
    Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 19:57:34 -0500
    From: Andrew Brown <as-brown@comcast.net>
Reply-To: Andrew Brown <as-brown@comcast.net>
 Query: Lolita and Keats-Bailey correspondence?Jansey,

It seems to me more that Proust's involuntary memory meant memories that come
unbidden, often unwelcome, more so than specific memories that are sought but
not obtained. Proust's characters are more often engulfed in memories,
overpowered by them. The involuntary action is memory's abundance. But from the
moment Humbert reports Annabel's death in Corfu, he can fairly easily, and
coldbloodedly, proceed without much of a backward glance for her. The passage
in which HH writes his ironic essay is in the period when he also writes his
fleshless (and stillborn) pastiche, and hangs out at the Deux Magot, and
basically lives as a banal left bank cliche. He admits to being an artiste
manque which also supports my idea about the idleness of his essay. The
nympholeptic contact has him in thrall, and he is less pining for the past than
he is muddling toward a future, through a string of desultory adventures, until
the fateful day he winds up in Ramsdale. And there he finds the real thing, of
which Annabel was merely simulacrum.

Andrew Brown


  ----- Forwarded message from jansy@aetern.us -----
      Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 14:15:27 -0300
      From: Jansy Berndt de Souza Mello <jansy@aetern.us>
  Reply-To: Jansy Berndt de Souza Mello <jansy@aetern.us>
   Subject: Re:      Query: Lolita and Keats-Bailey correspondence?


  I havenīt read any but one of Keatsī letters ( with the much quoted
description
  of "negative capability" - which all Nabokovians must cultivate anyway ) but
  Iīve always been intrigued by Nabokovīs project of having everything under
  control in his conscious mind yielding complete and free access to his
  remembrances. No slip without glitter and glide.

  And yet one of the intriguing aspects of Proustīs theory about memory and his
  examples comes from the fact that Proust refers to  an "involuntary memory".
  There is a wonderful essay on Proust written by Samuel Beckett where he was
able
  to count only six or seven epiphanies in Proustīs entire oeuvre.

  I was wondering if, instead of joining the chuckling scholars, HH was hiding a
  disappointment at his not being able to conjure up Annabel Lee as often as he
  desired. If his memory, like the Proustian, remained "involuntary" ...


    ----- Forwarded message from Andrew.Brown@bbdodetroit.com -----
        Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 08:26:38 -0500
        From: "Brown, Andrew" <Andrew.Brown@bbdodetroit.com>
    Mike,

    Having read Keats's letters and found nothing in those addressed to Bailey
to
    suggest a Proustian theme, I took Humbert's assertion to mean that his
article
    had intentionally been in jest. HH notes without disappointment that the
    article provoked chuckles from the few scholars who read it. I think VN was
    prone to enjoying this sort of humor. Possibly something of the sort was
among
    the minute idea seeds out of which grew the masterpiece Pale Fire.

    Andrew Brown




    > ----------
    > From:         Vladimir Nabokov Forum on behalf of Donald B. Johnson
    > Reply To:     Vladimir Nabokov Forum
    > Sent:         Tuesday, March 15, 2005 9:48 PM
    > To:   NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU
    > Subject:      Spam: Query: Lolita and Keats-Bailey correspondence?
    >
    > Dear List,
    >
    > A Lolita question: Humbert notes (p. 16 in the Vintage edition) that he
    > wrote an article about "The Proustian theme in a letter from Keats to
    > Benjamin Bailey." I assume that the letter has something to do with
memory,
    > but I'm having a hard time finding any passages in Keats's letters to
Bailey
    > that directly deal with memory. Has anyone figured out the specific Keats
    > passage that H.H. might be referring to?
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Mike Donohue
    >
    > ----- End forwarded message -----
    >
    >


    This message and any attachments contain information, which may be
  confidential
    or privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient, please refrain from
any
    disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this information.  Please be
aware
    that such actions are prohibited.  If you have received this transmission in
    error, kindly notify us by calling 1-800-262-4723 or e-mail to
    helpdesk@bbdo.com. We appreciate your cooperation.

    ----- End forwarded message -----



  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Mike,

    Having read Keats's letters and found nothing in those addressed to Bailey
to
  suggest a Proustian theme, I took Humbert's assertion to mean that his article
  had intentionally been in jest. HH notes without disappointment that the
  article provoked chuckles from the few scholars who read it. I think VN was
  prone to enjoying this sort of humor. Possibly something of the sort was among
  the minute idea seeds out of which grew the masterpiece Pale Fire.

    Andrew Brown





      ----------
      From:   Vladimir Nabokov Forum on behalf of Donald B. Johnson
      Reply To:       Vladimir Nabokov Forum
      Sent:   Tuesday, March 15, 2005 9:48 PM
      To:     NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU
      Subject:        Spam: Query: Lolita and Keats-Bailey correspondence?

      Dear List,

      A Lolita question: Humbert notes (p. 16 in the Vintage edition) that he
      wrote an article about "The Proustian theme in a letter from Keats to
      Benjamin Bailey." I assume that the letter has something to do with
memory,
      but I'm having a hard time finding any passages in Keats's letters to
Bailey
      that directly deal with memory. Has anyone figured out the specific Keats
      passage that H.H. might be referring to?

      Thanks,
      Mike Donohue

      ----- End forwarded message -----



          This message and any attachments contain information, which may be
  confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please
  refrain from any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this information.
  Please be aware that such actions are prohibited. If you have received this
  transmission in error, kindly notify us by calling 1-800-262-4723 or e-mail to
  helpdesk@bbdo.com. We appreciate your cooperation.

  ----- End forwarded message -----



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  Andrew,

  I havenīt read any but one of Keatsī letters ( with the much quoted
description of "negative capability" - which all Nabokovians must cultivate
anyway ) but Iīve always been intrigued by Nabokovīs project of having
everything under control in his conscious mind yielding complete and free
access to his remembrances. No slip without glitter and glide.

  And yet one of the intriguing aspects of Proustīs theory about memory and his
examples comes from the fact that Proust refers to  an "involuntary memory".
  There is a wonderful essay on Proust written by Samuel Beckett where he was
able to count only six or seven epiphanies in Proustīs entire oeuvre.

  I was wondering if, instead of joining the chuckling scholars, HH was hiding a
disappointment at his not being able to conjure up Annabel Lee as often as he
desired. If his memory, like the Proustian, remained "involuntary" ...

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Donald B. Johnson
    To: NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU
    Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 1:39 PM
    Subject: Query: Lolita and Keats-Bailey correspondence?




    ----- Forwarded message from Andrew.Brown@bbdodetroit.com -----
        Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 08:26:38 -0500
        From: "Brown, Andrew" <Andrew.Brown@bbdodetroit.com>
    Mike,

    Having read Keats's letters and found nothing in those addressed to Bailey
to
    suggest a Proustian theme, I took Humbert's assertion to mean that his
article
    had intentionally been in jest. HH notes without disappointment that the
    article provoked chuckles from the few scholars who read it. I think VN was
    prone to enjoying this sort of humor. Possibly something of the sort was
among
    the minute idea seeds out of which grew the masterpiece Pale Fire.

    Andrew Brown




    > ----------
    > From:         Vladimir Nabokov Forum on behalf of Donald B. Johnson
    > Reply To:     Vladimir Nabokov Forum
    > Sent:         Tuesday, March 15, 2005 9:48 PM
    > To:   NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU
    > Subject:      Spam: Query: Lolita and Keats-Bailey correspondence?
    >
    > Dear List,
    >
    > A Lolita question: Humbert notes (p. 16 in the Vintage edition) that he
    > wrote an article about "The Proustian theme in a letter from Keats to
    > Benjamin Bailey." I assume that the letter has something to do with
memory,
    > but I'm having a hard time finding any passages in Keats's letters to
Bailey
    > that directly deal with memory. Has anyone figured out the specific Keats
    > passage that H.H. might be referring to?
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Mike Donohue
    >
    > ----- End forwarded message -----
    >
    >


    This message and any attachments contain information, which may be
confidential
    or privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient, please refrain from
any
    disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this information.  Please be
aware
    that such actions are prohibited.  If you have received this transmission in
    error, kindly notify us by calling 1-800-262-4723 or e-mail to
    helpdesk@bbdo.com. We appreciate your cooperation.

    ----- End forwarded message -----



----------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Mike,

    Having read Keats's letters and found nothing in those addressed to Bailey
to suggest a Proustian theme, I took Humbert's assertion to mean that his
article had intentionally been in jest. HH notes without disappointment that
the article provoked chuckles from the few scholars who read it. I think VN was
prone to enjoying this sort of humor. Possibly something of the sort was among
the minute idea seeds out of which grew the masterpiece Pale Fire.

    Andrew Brown





      ----------
      From:   Vladimir Nabokov Forum on behalf of Donald B. Johnson
      Reply To:       Vladimir Nabokov Forum
      Sent:   Tuesday, March 15, 2005 9:48 PM
      To:     NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU
      Subject:        Spam: Query: Lolita and Keats-Bailey correspondence?

      Dear List,

      A Lolita question: Humbert notes (p. 16 in the Vintage edition) that he
      wrote an article about "The Proustian theme in a letter from Keats to
      Benjamin Bailey." I assume that the letter has something to do with
memory,
      but I'm having a hard time finding any passages in Keats's letters to
Bailey
      that directly deal with memory. Has anyone figured out the specific Keats
      passage that H.H. might be referring to?

      Thanks,
      Mike Donohue

      ----- End forwarded message -----



          This message and any attachments contain information, which may be
confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please
refrain from any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this information.
Please be aware that such actions are prohibited. If you have received this
transmission in error, kindly notify us by calling 1-800-262-4723 or e-mail to
helpdesk@bbdo.com. We appreciate your cooperation.

----- End forwarded message -----

Jansey,
 
It seems to me more that Proust's involuntary memory meant memories that come unbidden, often unwelcome, more so than specific memories that are sought but not obtained. Proust's characters are more often engulfed in memories, overpowered by them. The involuntary action is memory's abundance. But from the moment Humbert reports Annabel's death in Corfu, he can fairly easily, and coldbloodedly, proceed without much of a backward glance for her. The passage in which HH writes his ironic essay is in the period when he also writes his fleshless (and stillborn) pastiche, and hangs out at the Deux Magot, and basically lives as a banal left bank cliche. He admits to being an artiste manque which also supports my idea about the idleness of his essay. The nympholeptic contact has him in thrall, and he is less pining for the past than he is muddling toward a future, through a string of desultory adventures, until the fateful day he winds up in Ramsdale. And there he finds the real thing, of which Annabel was merely simulacrum.
 
Andrew Brown
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Donald B. Johnson
To: NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 3:50 PM
Subject: Fwd: Re: Query: Lolita and Keats-Bailey correspondence?



----- Forwarded message from jansy@aetern.us -----
    Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 14:15:27 -0300
    From: Jansy Berndt de Souza Mello <jansy@aetern.us>
Reply-To: Jansy Berndt de Souza Mello <jansy@aetern.us>
 Subject: Re:      Query: Lolita and Keats-Bailey correspondence?

RE: Spam: Query: Lolita and Keats-Bailey correspondence?Andrew,

I havenīt read any but one of Keatsī letters ( with the much quoted description
of "negative capability" - which all Nabokovians must cultivate anyway ) but
Iīve always been intrigued by Nabokovīs project of having everything under
control in his conscious mind yielding complete and free access to his
remembrances. No slip without glitter and glide.

And yet one of the intriguing aspects of Proustīs theory about memory and his
examples comes from the fact that Proust refers to  an "involuntary memory".
There is a wonderful essay on Proust written by Samuel Beckett where he was able
to count only six or seven epiphanies in Proustīs entire oeuvre.

I was wondering if, instead of joining the chuckling scholars, HH was hiding a
disappointment at his not being able to conjure up Annabel Lee as often as he
desired. If his memory, like the Proustian, remained "involuntary" ...

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Donald B. Johnson
  To: NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU
  Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 1:39 PM
  Subject: Query: Lolita and Keats-Bailey correspondence?




  ----- Forwarded message from Andrew.Brown@bbdodetroit.com -----
      Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 08:26:38 -0500
      From: "Brown, Andrew" <Andrew.Brown@bbdodetroit.com>
  Mike,

  Having read Keats's letters and found nothing in those addressed to Bailey to
  suggest a Proustian theme, I took Humbert's assertion to mean that his article
  had intentionally been in jest. HH notes without disappointment that the
  article provoked chuckles from the few scholars who read it. I think VN was
  prone to enjoying this sort of humor. Possibly something of the sort was among
  the minute idea seeds out of which grew the masterpiece Pale Fire.

  Andrew Brown




  > ----------
  > From:         Vladimir Nabokov Forum on behalf of Donald B. Johnson
  > Reply To:     Vladimir Nabokov Forum
  > Sent:         Tuesday, March 15, 2005 9:48 PM
  > To:   NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU
  > Subject:      Spam: Query: Lolita and Keats-Bailey correspondence?
  >
  > Dear List,
  >
  > A Lolita question: Humbert notes (p. 16 in the Vintage edition) that he
  > wrote an article about "The Proustian theme in a letter from Keats to
  > Benjamin Bailey." I assume that the letter has something to do with memory,
  > but I'm having a hard time finding any passages in Keats's letters to Bailey
  > that directly deal with memory. Has anyone figured out the specific Keats
  > passage that H.H. might be referring to?
  >
  > Thanks,
  > Mike Donohue
  >
  > ----- End forwarded message -----
  >
  >


  This message and any attachments contain information, which may be
confidential
  or privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient, please refrain from any
  disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this information.  Please be aware
  that such actions are prohibited.  If you have received this transmission in
  error, kindly notify us by calling 1-800-262-4723 or e-mail to
  helpdesk@bbdo.com. We appreciate your cooperation.

  ----- End forwarded message -----



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  Mike,

  Having read Keats's letters and found nothing in those addressed to Bailey to
suggest a Proustian theme, I took Humbert's assertion to mean that his article
had intentionally been in jest. HH notes without disappointment that the
article provoked chuckles from the few scholars who read it. I think VN was
prone to enjoying this sort of humor. Possibly something of the sort was among
the minute idea seeds out of which grew the masterpiece Pale Fire.

  Andrew Brown





    ----------
    From:   Vladimir Nabokov Forum on behalf of Donald B. Johnson
    Reply To:       Vladimir Nabokov Forum
    Sent:   Tuesday, March 15, 2005 9:48 PM
    To:     NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU
    Subject:        Spam: Query: Lolita and Keats-Bailey correspondence?

    Dear List,

    A Lolita question: Humbert notes (p. 16 in the Vintage edition) that he
    wrote an article about "The Proustian theme in a letter from Keats to
    Benjamin Bailey." I assume that the letter has something to do with memory,
    but I'm having a hard time finding any passages in Keats's letters to Bailey
    that directly deal with memory. Has anyone figured out the specific Keats
    passage that H.H. might be referring to?

    Thanks,
    Mike Donohue

    ----- End forwarded message -----



        This message and any attachments contain information, which may be
confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please
refrain from any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this information.
Please be aware that such actions are prohibited. If you have received this
transmission in error, kindly notify us by calling 1-800-262-4723 or e-mail to
helpdesk@bbdo.com. We appreciate your cooperation.

----- End forwarded message -----

Andrew,
 
I havenīt read any but one of Keatsī letters ( with the much quoted description of "negative capability" - which all Nabokovians must cultivate anyway ) but Iīve always been intrigued by Nabokovīs project of having everything under control in his conscious mind yielding complete and free access to his remembrances. No slip without glitter and glide.

And yet one of the intriguing aspects of Proustīs theory about memory and his examples comes from the fact that Proust refers to  an "involuntary memory".
There is a wonderful essay on Proust written by Samuel Beckett where he was able to count only six or seven epiphanies in Proustīs entire oeuvre.
 
I was wondering if, instead of joining the chuckling scholars, HH was hiding a disappointment at his not being able to conjure up Annabel Lee as often as he desired. If his memory, like the Proustian, remained "involuntary" ...
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Donald B. Johnson
To: NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 1:39 PM
Subject: Query: Lolita and Keats-Bailey correspondence?



----- Forwarded message from Andrew.Brown@bbdodetroit.com -----
    Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 08:26:38 -0500
    From: "Brown, Andrew" <Andrew.Brown@bbdodetroit.com>
Mike,

Having read Keats's letters and found nothing in those addressed to Bailey to
suggest a Proustian theme, I took Humbert's assertion to mean that his article
had intentionally been in jest. HH notes without disappointment that the
article provoked chuckles from the few scholars who read it. I think VN was
prone to enjoying this sort of humor. Possibly something of the sort was among
the minute idea seeds out of which grew the masterpiece Pale Fire.

Andrew Brown




> ----------
> From:         Vladimir Nabokov Forum on behalf of Donald B. Johnson
> Reply To:     Vladimir Nabokov Forum
> Sent:         Tuesday, March 15, 2005 9:48 PM
> To:   NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU
> Subject:      Spam: Query: Lolita and Keats-Bailey correspondence?
>
> Dear List,
>
> A Lolita question: Humbert notes (p. 16 in the Vintage edition) that he
> wrote an article about "The Proustian theme in a letter from Keats to
> Benjamin Bailey." I assume that the letter has something to do with memory,
> but I'm having a hard time finding any passages in Keats's letters to Bailey
> that directly deal with memory. Has anyone figured out the specific Keats
> passage that H.H. might be referring to?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike Donohue
>
> ----- End forwarded message -----
>
>


This message and any attachments contain information, which may be confidential
or privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient, please refrain from any
disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this information.  Please be aware
that such actions are prohibited.  If you have received this transmission in
error, kindly notify us by calling 1-800-262-4723 or e-mail to
helpdesk@bbdo.com. We appreciate your cooperation.

----- End forwarded message -----

Mike,

Having read Keats's letters and found nothing in those addressed to Bailey to suggest a Proustian theme, I took Humbert's assertion to mean that his article had intentionally been in jest. HH notes without disappointment that the article provoked chuckles from the few scholars who read it. I think VN was prone to enjoying this sort of humor. Possibly something of the sort was among the minute idea seeds out of which grew the masterpiece Pale Fire.

Andrew Brown


  

    ----------
    From:   Vladimir Nabokov Forum on behalf of Donald B. Johnson
    Reply To:       Vladimir Nabokov Forum
    Sent:   Tuesday, March 15, 2005 9:48 PM
    To:     NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU
    Subject:        Spam: Query: Lolita and Keats-Bailey correspondence?

    Dear List,

    A Lolita question: Humbert notes (p. 16 in the Vintage edition) that he
    wrote an article about "The Proustian theme in a letter from Keats to
    Benjamin Bailey." I assume that the letter has something to do with memory,
    but I'm having a hard time finding any passages in Keats's letters to Bailey
    that directly deal with memory. Has anyone figured out the specific Keats
    passage that H.H. might be referring to?

    Thanks,
    Mike Donohue

    ----- End forwarded message -----


This message and any attachments contain information, which may be confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please refrain from any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this information. Please be aware that such actions are prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, kindly notify us by calling 1-800-262-4723 or e-mail to helpdesk@bbdo.com. We appreciate your cooperation.