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EDNOTE. If there ppear to be gaps in the PYNCHON-L material, it probably
means that the digest had no Nabokov stuff in it--barring, of course, slips
in my hasty editing.
----- Original Message -----
From: "pynchon-l-digest" <owner-pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
To: <pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 11:05 AM
Subject: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3418
>
> pynchon-l-digest Wednesday, July 16 2003 Volume 02 : Number
3418
>
> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:30:32 -0400
> From: "cfalbert" <calbert@hslboxmaster.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF: Keith's Shocking Theory
>
> Normal, or perhaps simply a milestone on the "downward road".........isn't
> there something about the privileging of sodomy over coitus as a sign of
> the coming apocalypse?
>
> Certainly a trend towards homosexuality is frequently cited as an element
of
> the pathology of cultures........
>
> love,
> cfa
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "The Great Quail" <quail@libyrinth.com>
> To: "The Whole Sick Crew" <pynchon-l@waste.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 10:58 AM
> Subject: Re: NPPF: Keith's Shocking Theory
>
>
> > Jasper writes,
> >
> > > Andrew Field thought Zembla was a "homosexual fantasy" for Kinbote
> (whatever
> > > that is exactly),
> >
> > I can see that, certainly. One thing that strikes me about Zembla is how
> > open and acceptable homosexuality is, particularly among the ruling
> classes.
> > There is almost an expectation that young Zemblan men will dally with
one
> > another, not to mention page boys and the like. This is especially
> powerful
> > given the time the book was written and takes place -- America in the
> 1950s.
> >
> > It's actually one of the aspects of Kinbote's story that humanizes him
for
> > me. Even though he treats women contemptuously, there's something moving
> in
> > his need to create a land where his own sexuality is normal. Though I
> > certainly feel that Nabokov treats K's sexual proclivities with a
certain
> > degree of mockery, the pathos is still there, under the surface.
> >
> > --Quail
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:40:52 -0400
> From: The Great Quail <quail@libyrinth.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF: Keith's Shocking Theory
>
> Jasper writes,
>
> > I agree that in this respect and in others, viewing
> > Zembla as the invention of a place where Kinbote can find belonging
offers
> > us a humanizing aspect of the character. But on the other hand, Kinbote
> > makes himself the King of this place, and peoples it with servants and
loyal
> > accomplices, the antagonists petty thugs and dull-witted brutes; it goes
> > beyond simple belonging, and into the realm of controlling.
>
> Oh God yes. Like everything with Kinbote, any sympathy you might have for
> him contains the seeds of loathing. Nabokov gives us pathos with an edge,
an
> "almost likeable" character. Kinbote is "damaged goods" -- he's his own
> worst enemy, and that places our emotions in a much more complex space:
all
> our pity is tempered by caution, our understanding inflected with reserve.
> It's like feeling sorry for Hitler than he couldn't get into art school,
or
> feeling bad when Brock Vond gets his funding cut. (Hey, look! a VL
> reference! ;) I think it's definitely a testimony to the complexity of
> Nabokov's universe, which also, of course, contains somewhat similar
> characters like Humbert Humbert, and to a lesser extent, Luzhin.
>
> - --Quail
>
> PS: Now that I think about it, fuck Brock. He's not insane or desperate.
> Though he has a *great* name.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 01:46:31 +1000
> From: jbor <jbor@bigpond.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF The Introduction - Golconda
>
> It's a wonderful painting, and it really does resonate with the
description
> of Gradus you point out.
>
> I'm not so sure about whether the painting, or Gradus, connect up in any
way
> with the reference in the Foreword, however: "imagine an exiled prince
> unaware of the Golconda in his cufflinks!" I think that in the context
here
> it refers to very valuable diamonds. (Sorry, I know I'm being prosaic.)
>
> best
>
>
> on 16/7/03 2:54 AM, James Kyllo at jkyllo@clara.net wrote:
>
> >
> > Also, a painting by Rene Magritte, which brings to (my) mind the
description
> > of Gradus in the notes to lines 131-2
> >
> > http://www.artinvest2000.com/magritte_golconda.htm
> >
> > James
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "James Kyllo" <jkyllo@clara.net>
> > To: <pynchon-l@waste.org>; "Toby G Levy" <tobylevy@juno.com>
> > Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 3:12 PM
> > Subject: Re: The Introduction - Golconda
> >
> >
> >>> 3. Golconda (17)
> >>>
> >>
> >> The capital of a 16th Century Muslim sultanate. The name has come to
be
> >> associated with great wealth. (so my dictionary claims)
> >>
> >> James
> >>
> >> http://www.golconda.net/
> >>
> >> http://www.meadev.nic.in/tourism/forts/golconda.htm
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:48:38 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: RE: NPPF: Keith's Shocking Theory (was Preliminary: The Epigraph)
>
> - --- Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net> wrote:
> > On Wed, 2003-07-16 at 09:51, Jasper Fidget wrote:
> > > > --- Jasper Fidget <jasper@hatguild.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > From: David Morris [mailto:fqmorris@yahoo.com]
> > > > I'm not sure if Keith has made this claim, but Kunin has speculated
that
> Kinbote/Shade are the same person, and the whole of Zembla and King
Charles
> (and thus Kinbote) is a manifestation of Shade's mental illness stemming
fron a
> childhood sexual trauma. But the Nabokov list is very skeptical...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > Given all the homosexual detail and escapades in the Commentary (not
all of
> which is indicated to by pederasty), it's difficult to believe Zembla
created
> by Shade. There's no indication of homosexuality in the poem (that I'm
aware
> of anyway), although I suppose Zembla as the land of negatives and
reflections
> might be Shade's adamant insistence on what he determinedly is *not*....
>
> I can't say that I ascribe to any particular theory yet, but if young
Shade had
> suffered a sexual trauma (the signs for which are very faint in the poem
> standing alone - I think smoe echoes and corresponding dates in the Intro
or
> Commentary will be necesary to estabish this theory on firmer feet) at the
> hands of Aunt Maud, then the world of Zembla could be his refuge from the
world
> of predatory females. Just a thought...
>
> David Morris
>
>
>
> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:52:34 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF: Keith's Shocking Theory
>
> - --- The Great Quail <quail@libyrinth.com> wrote:\
> > Though I certainly feel that Nabokov treats K's sexual proclivities with
a
> certain degree of mockery, the pathos is still there, under the surface.
>
> I remember reading that VN's brother was homosexual, and suffered some
form of
> discrimination at the hands of his own family. I also remember reading
> something about VN's disgust for homosexuality. I don't have the
specifics...
>
> DM
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: 16 Jul 2003 12:07:40 -0400
> From: Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF The Introduction - Golconda
>
> On Wed, 2003-07-16 at 11:46, jbor wrote:
> > It's a wonderful painting, and it really does resonate with the
description
> > of Gradus you point out.
> >
> > I'm not so sure about whether the painting, or Gradus, connect up in any
way
> > with the reference in the Foreword, however: "imagine an exiled prince
> > unaware of the Golconda in his cufflinks!" I think that in the context
here
> > it refers to very valuable diamonds. (Sorry, I know I'm being prosaic.)
>
>
> Or even to generic monetary worth. Gold content.
>
> P.
> >
> > best
> >
> >
> > on 16/7/03 2:54 AM, James Kyllo at jkyllo@clara.net wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Also, a painting by Rene Magritte, which brings to (my) mind the
description
> > > of Gradus in the notes to lines 131-2
> > >
> > > http://www.artinvest2000.com/magritte_golconda.htm
> > >
> > > James
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "James Kyllo" <jkyllo@clara.net>
> > > To: <pynchon-l@waste.org>; "Toby G Levy" <tobylevy@juno.com>
> > > Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 3:12 PM
> > > Subject: Re: The Introduction - Golconda
> > >
> > >
> > >>> 3. Golconda (17)
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> The capital of a 16th Century Muslim sultanate. The name has come to
be
> > >> associated with great wealth. (so my dictionary claims)
> > >>
> > >> James
> > >>
> > >> http://www.golconda.net/
> > >>
> > >> http://www.meadev.nic.in/tourism/forts/golconda.htm
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:10:09 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: RE: NPPF - Incest theme
>
> - --- Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > Didn't know they were toxic. None of our pets has shown any ill effects
from
> chewing them.
>
> http://museum.gov.ns.ca/poison/yew.htm
>
> POISON LOCATION:
> Seeds, and leaves of yew shrubs. The pulp of the scarlet, berry-like fruit
is
> harmless, but the seeds inside can be FATAL. Male and female shrubs are
> distinct; fruit is found only on female plants.
>
> POISON TYPE:
> Alkaloids which supress heart function. Recently, bark extracts of Yew
plants
> have been identified for experimental treatment of cancer.
>
> TYPICAL POISONING SCENARIO:
> Accidental consumption of fruit by children who are attracted by the
pretty,
> red "berries." If you have Yew in the neighborhood, it is important to
prevent
> small children picking & eating the fruit.
>
> SYMPTOMS:
> Ingestion of enough seeds can cause trembling and breathing difficulty, as
well
> as suppressed heart action. The poison is highly toxic; in some cases,
death
> occurs suddenly without any prior symptoms at all.
> ------------------------------
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:41:04 -0400
> From: Toby G Levy <tobylevy@juno.com>
> Subject: RE: NPPF - Foreward - Notes
>
> One more note about Parthenocissus Hall:
>
> The root Parthen comes from the Greek word word for virgin.
>
> According to the Reader's Encyclopedia the Parthenon is "The great
> temple at Athens to Athene Parthenos (i.e., the Virgin)."
>
> from an online botanical dictionary: "PARTHENOGENESIS: The reproduction
> of offspring from an egg cell without fertilization"
>
> The American Heritage dictionary also has "parthenocarpy: the production
> of fruit without fertilization"
>
> cissus is defined at botonay.com as climbing plants, so may we say that
> parthenocissus are climbing plants that reproduce without fertilization?
>
> At any rate, do we add "virgin" to the mix of images that VN wished to
> invoke?
>
> Toby
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:48:21 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Foreword - Summary / Commentary (2)
>
> - --- Jasper Fidget <jasper@hatguild.org> wrote:
> >
> > "(See my note to line 991.)" The only cross-reference in the Foreword.
>
> Not so. He also points the reader to the *last* line in the Foreword, but
I
> don't have my book with me now...
>
> > This cross-reference is also the first of several indications that the
> Foreword has been written last or close to last, after the Commentary.
>
> Again, not so. In the Commentary he corrects his error in calling the
sound
> outside his room as comming from an amusement park, and pointed says he's
not
> going to fix his earlier error in the text.
>
> David Morris
>
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:24:44 -0700
> From: "Glenn Scheper" <glenn_scheper@earthlink.net>
> Subject: NPPF - Your clothes are on fire!
>
> Vladimir Nabokov would not have suggested that someday,
> someone might interpret his lewd works as highly moral,
> - --unless he knew such a re-interpretation was possible.
>
> I have created the epochal revelation of Jesus Christ;
> mapping all religious terms onto a little-known domain
> of monadic sexuality; giving hard corrigible referents
> to that which was only divergent speculation and dogma.
>
> In two words: autofellatio (hereafter AF) and psychosis.
> They make the youthful death and rebirth of the phoenix,
> at once a descent into Hades and the Christian metanoia,
> as is portrayed in _Hamlet_ and Kafka's _Metamorphosis_.
>
> Cracking _Revelation_ leads me to believe there are four
> types of people in each gender, differentiated according
> to the whether they were subject to maternal cunnilingus
> and paternal fellatio (FF), which (FF) is well described
> in Goethe's _Elfin Koenig_, a father slaying his own son.
>
> If both occur to a male, at Revelation's octant Thyatira,
> subsequent AF will recover a pre-linguistic memory of FF.
> This onslaught of inexpressible, direct gnosis caused me,
> in the day of my psychosis, to tell my father I believed
> I had to kill him, a father become to me uncle--Claudius.
> The OEdipal ideation included the idea to rape my mother.
> The idea immobilized me several years, like Gregor Samsa.
>
> Because AF collapses the three OEdipal distinctions: of
> life and death, of parent and child, of male and female;
> the son becomes his own father, genderless, hence mother
> too, and with a Buddhist undecidability, alive and dead.
>
> Western culture hangs from, oscillates on, the amalgam
> of Greek Ulysses, who did not plow his son, and Jewish
> Abraham, who apparently did, creating in Issac his ram,
> a Smyrna archetype, like a generational dropped stitch.
>
> No doubt Nabokov's purview of these essential matters
> will perfect my own decoding of Revelation, even as I
> hope you will find my reading-into of various authors
> - --the books were opened, and the dead were judged out
> of the things written therein--may illuminate Nabokov.
>
> Coincidentally, like _Pale Fire_, my web site has two
> major essays: A large, lax compendium of correlations
> and observations, _The Word of God: The Production of
> Christ_, and more formal _Heroic Alterity_, emulating
> a scholarly thesis, my hope for publication abandoned.
>
> Already in PF, to mull a few past posts and easy points:
> A bird is, I tell you, a standard poetic metaphor of AF.
>
> The Waxwing was slain, first in a mirror (AF) and later
> under a wheelbarrow (death), which Shade cannot record.
>
> Hazel is in the eighth and excluded archetype, a female
> paralleling male Thyatira, without letter in Revelation
> because of her impossibility of being--I will kill [her
> mother, Jezebel's] children with death--That is, by FF.
>
> As Nabokov's father was shot, and with AF (and various
> other acts as I tell) able to confuse paternity, Shade
> and Kinbote may portray this same father-son confusion,
> as when Nietzsche, whose father died when he was young,
> said that his life was a paradox, roughly "As my father
> I am already dead, and as my mother I continue to live."
>
> Kinbote studies Shade, his Son. Aunt Maud is his mother.
> Kinbote was Charles, deposed the moment he abused Shade.
> Aha, No! He reigned as King over Shade until Shade's AF.
> Well, it will help when I finish PF. I am up to a Vague
> (Cloud==AF) King Alfin (Elfin Koenig=FF) pool reference.
>
> > Frank has acknowledged the safe return of the galleys
> > I had been sent here...
> This is correct only if the galleys are Kinbote himself,
> as, AF as speech act satisfies the Word which is itself.
>
> > ... being forced to orally pleasure Aunt Maud?
> Beautiful! I read over that text without recognizing it.
>
> > ... give me more about the Black Rose Paladins!
> Paladin is a pregnant female carrying hope of salvation.
> Also male Zeus, bearing Athena in his head is a paladin.
> Such is a knower, fallen in a deep crevice of abjection.
>
> Atop Canto three, "l'if" for me accesses the English if,
> a mere conjunction in text, but for a software engineer,
> if indicates a decision point, bifurcating world states.
> I had resolved the Taoist "The truth is neither this nor
> that" using schizophrenic inclusion:" "The truth is this
> AND that" whereas Nabokov appears to have resolved it as
> the possiblility of choice: "The truth is this OR that".
> Thus applied to the Cartesian divide, Nabokov shew faith
> in a realm of consciousness, and disdained several types
> who choose the body: Freud, who called fantasy psychical
> overvaluation; Crowley, who made self-will his only law;
> and Buddhism, who's undecidability is refusal to choose.
>
> I have already seen much to comment upon, in due course.
> If you don't like my hypotheses, you can stop your ears.
>
> Yours truly,
> Glenn Scheper
> http://home.earthlink.net/~glenn_scheper/
> glenn_scheper + at + earthlink.net
> Copyleft(!) Forward freely.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: 16 Jul 2003 13:32:00 -0400
> From: Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net>
> Subject: RE: NPPF: Keith's Shocking Theory (was Preliminary: The Epigraph)
>
> On Wed, 2003-07-16 at 11:10, Jasper Fidget wrote:
>
> > >
> > > Fleur must be hurt or at least discouraged by her lack of success in
> > > seducing young Charles. And Disa who's truly got it bad for her
husband
> > > suffers greatly from his rebuffs. Females suffer in predominantly
> > > homosexual Zembla at least in some part like Hazel suffers in New
Wye..
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Good point, and I would add Garh the farmer's daughter. If Zembla is
K's
> > invention it's almost as if he *wants* women to suffer there, or at
least
> > for their desires to be thwarted (mainly by Charles himself). I wonder
to
> > what extent Zembla is therefore a *negation* of the New Wye world K
finds
> > himself in. (And what happens when matter and anti-matter meet?)
>
>
> Yes, it seems to be that Charles's (Kinbote's) lack of sexual interest
> in females may not be as important in defining his character as his
> manifest desire to cause them to suffer. He invariably makes some
> disparaging remark about those he has "turned down" or merely
> encountered (such as Sybil).
>
> Browning's "My Last Duchess" is alluded to several places. In the poem
> and in the commentary.
>
> P.
>
> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:53:31 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: RE: NPPF - Foreword - Summary / Commentary (2)
>
> > From: David Morris [mailto:fqmorris@yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 12:48 PM
> > To: Jasper Fidget; pynchon-l@waste.org
> > Subject: Re: NPPF - Foreword - Summary / Commentary (2)
> >
> >
> > --- Jasper Fidget <jasper@hatguild.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > "(See my note to line 991.)" The only cross-reference in the
Foreword.
> >
> > Not so. He also points the reader to the *last* line in the Foreword,
but
> > I
> > don't have my book with me now...
>
> Yes, he does reference several lines in the poem but not any of his own
> notes in the Commentary.
>
> >
> > > This cross-reference is also the first of several indications that the
> > Foreword has been written last or close to last, after the Commentary.
> >
> > Again, not so. In the Commentary he corrects his error in calling the
> > sound
> > outside his room as comming from an amusement park, and pointed says
he's
> > not
> > going to fix his earlier error in the text.
> >
> > David Morris
> >
>
> I posted something about this earlier in a similar context. On page 15,
> Kinbote writes, "(See my note to line 991)", and then on page 17 writes,
> "As mentioned, I think, in my last note to the poem", both referring to
the
> commentary as if it already exists; but then as you point out K seems to
> contradict that in his Note to 609-614 (p. 234-235): "diabolical radio
music
> from what I thought was some kind of amusement park across the road -- it
> turned out to be camping tourists."
>
> My first impression was that the Commentary and the Forward had been put
> together out of order, with at least those two Notes (991 and 1000)
> preceding the Foreword, but at least Note 609-614 being written
afterwards,
> but then it occurred to me that the writing must have taken place in
> discrete groups based around location (or what I've been thinking about as
> "planes") rather than according to the structure of Shade's poem. The
Notes
> to 991 and 1000 take place in New Wye, as do all of the cross-references
> that begin from the Note to 991; these must have been written first. The
> set of notes taking place in Zembla, those discussing only the poem
itself,
> and the Foreword must have been written next, and finally those notes
> concerning K's exile in Utana must have been written last, given that they
> refer to the Foreword.
>
> Yet another wrinkle in the questions surrounding the way this thing got to
> the printer.
>
> Jasper
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of pynchon-l-digest V2 #3418
> ********************************
means that the digest had no Nabokov stuff in it--barring, of course, slips
in my hasty editing.
----- Original Message -----
From: "pynchon-l-digest" <owner-pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
To: <pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 11:05 AM
Subject: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3418
>
> pynchon-l-digest Wednesday, July 16 2003 Volume 02 : Number
3418
>
> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:30:32 -0400
> From: "cfalbert" <calbert@hslboxmaster.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF: Keith's Shocking Theory
>
> Normal, or perhaps simply a milestone on the "downward road".........isn't
> there something about the privileging of sodomy over coitus as a sign of
> the coming apocalypse?
>
> Certainly a trend towards homosexuality is frequently cited as an element
of
> the pathology of cultures........
>
> love,
> cfa
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "The Great Quail" <quail@libyrinth.com>
> To: "The Whole Sick Crew" <pynchon-l@waste.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 10:58 AM
> Subject: Re: NPPF: Keith's Shocking Theory
>
>
> > Jasper writes,
> >
> > > Andrew Field thought Zembla was a "homosexual fantasy" for Kinbote
> (whatever
> > > that is exactly),
> >
> > I can see that, certainly. One thing that strikes me about Zembla is how
> > open and acceptable homosexuality is, particularly among the ruling
> classes.
> > There is almost an expectation that young Zemblan men will dally with
one
> > another, not to mention page boys and the like. This is especially
> powerful
> > given the time the book was written and takes place -- America in the
> 1950s.
> >
> > It's actually one of the aspects of Kinbote's story that humanizes him
for
> > me. Even though he treats women contemptuously, there's something moving
> in
> > his need to create a land where his own sexuality is normal. Though I
> > certainly feel that Nabokov treats K's sexual proclivities with a
certain
> > degree of mockery, the pathos is still there, under the surface.
> >
> > --Quail
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:40:52 -0400
> From: The Great Quail <quail@libyrinth.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF: Keith's Shocking Theory
>
> Jasper writes,
>
> > I agree that in this respect and in others, viewing
> > Zembla as the invention of a place where Kinbote can find belonging
offers
> > us a humanizing aspect of the character. But on the other hand, Kinbote
> > makes himself the King of this place, and peoples it with servants and
loyal
> > accomplices, the antagonists petty thugs and dull-witted brutes; it goes
> > beyond simple belonging, and into the realm of controlling.
>
> Oh God yes. Like everything with Kinbote, any sympathy you might have for
> him contains the seeds of loathing. Nabokov gives us pathos with an edge,
an
> "almost likeable" character. Kinbote is "damaged goods" -- he's his own
> worst enemy, and that places our emotions in a much more complex space:
all
> our pity is tempered by caution, our understanding inflected with reserve.
> It's like feeling sorry for Hitler than he couldn't get into art school,
or
> feeling bad when Brock Vond gets his funding cut. (Hey, look! a VL
> reference! ;) I think it's definitely a testimony to the complexity of
> Nabokov's universe, which also, of course, contains somewhat similar
> characters like Humbert Humbert, and to a lesser extent, Luzhin.
>
> - --Quail
>
> PS: Now that I think about it, fuck Brock. He's not insane or desperate.
> Though he has a *great* name.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 01:46:31 +1000
> From: jbor <jbor@bigpond.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF The Introduction - Golconda
>
> It's a wonderful painting, and it really does resonate with the
description
> of Gradus you point out.
>
> I'm not so sure about whether the painting, or Gradus, connect up in any
way
> with the reference in the Foreword, however: "imagine an exiled prince
> unaware of the Golconda in his cufflinks!" I think that in the context
here
> it refers to very valuable diamonds. (Sorry, I know I'm being prosaic.)
>
> best
>
>
> on 16/7/03 2:54 AM, James Kyllo at jkyllo@clara.net wrote:
>
> >
> > Also, a painting by Rene Magritte, which brings to (my) mind the
description
> > of Gradus in the notes to lines 131-2
> >
> > http://www.artinvest2000.com/magritte_golconda.htm
> >
> > James
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "James Kyllo" <jkyllo@clara.net>
> > To: <pynchon-l@waste.org>; "Toby G Levy" <tobylevy@juno.com>
> > Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 3:12 PM
> > Subject: Re: The Introduction - Golconda
> >
> >
> >>> 3. Golconda (17)
> >>>
> >>
> >> The capital of a 16th Century Muslim sultanate. The name has come to
be
> >> associated with great wealth. (so my dictionary claims)
> >>
> >> James
> >>
> >> http://www.golconda.net/
> >>
> >> http://www.meadev.nic.in/tourism/forts/golconda.htm
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:48:38 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: RE: NPPF: Keith's Shocking Theory (was Preliminary: The Epigraph)
>
> - --- Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net> wrote:
> > On Wed, 2003-07-16 at 09:51, Jasper Fidget wrote:
> > > > --- Jasper Fidget <jasper@hatguild.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > From: David Morris [mailto:fqmorris@yahoo.com]
> > > > I'm not sure if Keith has made this claim, but Kunin has speculated
that
> Kinbote/Shade are the same person, and the whole of Zembla and King
Charles
> (and thus Kinbote) is a manifestation of Shade's mental illness stemming
fron a
> childhood sexual trauma. But the Nabokov list is very skeptical...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > Given all the homosexual detail and escapades in the Commentary (not
all of
> which is indicated to by pederasty), it's difficult to believe Zembla
created
> by Shade. There's no indication of homosexuality in the poem (that I'm
aware
> of anyway), although I suppose Zembla as the land of negatives and
reflections
> might be Shade's adamant insistence on what he determinedly is *not*....
>
> I can't say that I ascribe to any particular theory yet, but if young
Shade had
> suffered a sexual trauma (the signs for which are very faint in the poem
> standing alone - I think smoe echoes and corresponding dates in the Intro
or
> Commentary will be necesary to estabish this theory on firmer feet) at the
> hands of Aunt Maud, then the world of Zembla could be his refuge from the
world
> of predatory females. Just a thought...
>
> David Morris
>
>
>
> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:52:34 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF: Keith's Shocking Theory
>
> - --- The Great Quail <quail@libyrinth.com> wrote:\
> > Though I certainly feel that Nabokov treats K's sexual proclivities with
a
> certain degree of mockery, the pathos is still there, under the surface.
>
> I remember reading that VN's brother was homosexual, and suffered some
form of
> discrimination at the hands of his own family. I also remember reading
> something about VN's disgust for homosexuality. I don't have the
specifics...
>
> DM
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: 16 Jul 2003 12:07:40 -0400
> From: Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF The Introduction - Golconda
>
> On Wed, 2003-07-16 at 11:46, jbor wrote:
> > It's a wonderful painting, and it really does resonate with the
description
> > of Gradus you point out.
> >
> > I'm not so sure about whether the painting, or Gradus, connect up in any
way
> > with the reference in the Foreword, however: "imagine an exiled prince
> > unaware of the Golconda in his cufflinks!" I think that in the context
here
> > it refers to very valuable diamonds. (Sorry, I know I'm being prosaic.)
>
>
> Or even to generic monetary worth. Gold content.
>
> P.
> >
> > best
> >
> >
> > on 16/7/03 2:54 AM, James Kyllo at jkyllo@clara.net wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Also, a painting by Rene Magritte, which brings to (my) mind the
description
> > > of Gradus in the notes to lines 131-2
> > >
> > > http://www.artinvest2000.com/magritte_golconda.htm
> > >
> > > James
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "James Kyllo" <jkyllo@clara.net>
> > > To: <pynchon-l@waste.org>; "Toby G Levy" <tobylevy@juno.com>
> > > Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 3:12 PM
> > > Subject: Re: The Introduction - Golconda
> > >
> > >
> > >>> 3. Golconda (17)
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> The capital of a 16th Century Muslim sultanate. The name has come to
be
> > >> associated with great wealth. (so my dictionary claims)
> > >>
> > >> James
> > >>
> > >> http://www.golconda.net/
> > >>
> > >> http://www.meadev.nic.in/tourism/forts/golconda.htm
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:10:09 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: RE: NPPF - Incest theme
>
> - --- Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > Didn't know they were toxic. None of our pets has shown any ill effects
from
> chewing them.
>
> http://museum.gov.ns.ca/poison/yew.htm
>
> POISON LOCATION:
> Seeds, and leaves of yew shrubs. The pulp of the scarlet, berry-like fruit
is
> harmless, but the seeds inside can be FATAL. Male and female shrubs are
> distinct; fruit is found only on female plants.
>
> POISON TYPE:
> Alkaloids which supress heart function. Recently, bark extracts of Yew
plants
> have been identified for experimental treatment of cancer.
>
> TYPICAL POISONING SCENARIO:
> Accidental consumption of fruit by children who are attracted by the
pretty,
> red "berries." If you have Yew in the neighborhood, it is important to
prevent
> small children picking & eating the fruit.
>
> SYMPTOMS:
> Ingestion of enough seeds can cause trembling and breathing difficulty, as
well
> as suppressed heart action. The poison is highly toxic; in some cases,
death
> occurs suddenly without any prior symptoms at all.
> ------------------------------
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:41:04 -0400
> From: Toby G Levy <tobylevy@juno.com>
> Subject: RE: NPPF - Foreward - Notes
>
> One more note about Parthenocissus Hall:
>
> The root Parthen comes from the Greek word word for virgin.
>
> According to the Reader's Encyclopedia the Parthenon is "The great
> temple at Athens to Athene Parthenos (i.e., the Virgin)."
>
> from an online botanical dictionary: "PARTHENOGENESIS: The reproduction
> of offspring from an egg cell without fertilization"
>
> The American Heritage dictionary also has "parthenocarpy: the production
> of fruit without fertilization"
>
> cissus is defined at botonay.com as climbing plants, so may we say that
> parthenocissus are climbing plants that reproduce without fertilization?
>
> At any rate, do we add "virgin" to the mix of images that VN wished to
> invoke?
>
> Toby
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:48:21 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Foreword - Summary / Commentary (2)
>
> - --- Jasper Fidget <jasper@hatguild.org> wrote:
> >
> > "(See my note to line 991.)" The only cross-reference in the Foreword.
>
> Not so. He also points the reader to the *last* line in the Foreword, but
I
> don't have my book with me now...
>
> > This cross-reference is also the first of several indications that the
> Foreword has been written last or close to last, after the Commentary.
>
> Again, not so. In the Commentary he corrects his error in calling the
sound
> outside his room as comming from an amusement park, and pointed says he's
not
> going to fix his earlier error in the text.
>
> David Morris
>
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:24:44 -0700
> From: "Glenn Scheper" <glenn_scheper@earthlink.net>
> Subject: NPPF - Your clothes are on fire!
>
> Vladimir Nabokov would not have suggested that someday,
> someone might interpret his lewd works as highly moral,
> - --unless he knew such a re-interpretation was possible.
>
> I have created the epochal revelation of Jesus Christ;
> mapping all religious terms onto a little-known domain
> of monadic sexuality; giving hard corrigible referents
> to that which was only divergent speculation and dogma.
>
> In two words: autofellatio (hereafter AF) and psychosis.
> They make the youthful death and rebirth of the phoenix,
> at once a descent into Hades and the Christian metanoia,
> as is portrayed in _Hamlet_ and Kafka's _Metamorphosis_.
>
> Cracking _Revelation_ leads me to believe there are four
> types of people in each gender, differentiated according
> to the whether they were subject to maternal cunnilingus
> and paternal fellatio (FF), which (FF) is well described
> in Goethe's _Elfin Koenig_, a father slaying his own son.
>
> If both occur to a male, at Revelation's octant Thyatira,
> subsequent AF will recover a pre-linguistic memory of FF.
> This onslaught of inexpressible, direct gnosis caused me,
> in the day of my psychosis, to tell my father I believed
> I had to kill him, a father become to me uncle--Claudius.
> The OEdipal ideation included the idea to rape my mother.
> The idea immobilized me several years, like Gregor Samsa.
>
> Because AF collapses the three OEdipal distinctions: of
> life and death, of parent and child, of male and female;
> the son becomes his own father, genderless, hence mother
> too, and with a Buddhist undecidability, alive and dead.
>
> Western culture hangs from, oscillates on, the amalgam
> of Greek Ulysses, who did not plow his son, and Jewish
> Abraham, who apparently did, creating in Issac his ram,
> a Smyrna archetype, like a generational dropped stitch.
>
> No doubt Nabokov's purview of these essential matters
> will perfect my own decoding of Revelation, even as I
> hope you will find my reading-into of various authors
> - --the books were opened, and the dead were judged out
> of the things written therein--may illuminate Nabokov.
>
> Coincidentally, like _Pale Fire_, my web site has two
> major essays: A large, lax compendium of correlations
> and observations, _The Word of God: The Production of
> Christ_, and more formal _Heroic Alterity_, emulating
> a scholarly thesis, my hope for publication abandoned.
>
> Already in PF, to mull a few past posts and easy points:
> A bird is, I tell you, a standard poetic metaphor of AF.
>
> The Waxwing was slain, first in a mirror (AF) and later
> under a wheelbarrow (death), which Shade cannot record.
>
> Hazel is in the eighth and excluded archetype, a female
> paralleling male Thyatira, without letter in Revelation
> because of her impossibility of being--I will kill [her
> mother, Jezebel's] children with death--That is, by FF.
>
> As Nabokov's father was shot, and with AF (and various
> other acts as I tell) able to confuse paternity, Shade
> and Kinbote may portray this same father-son confusion,
> as when Nietzsche, whose father died when he was young,
> said that his life was a paradox, roughly "As my father
> I am already dead, and as my mother I continue to live."
>
> Kinbote studies Shade, his Son. Aunt Maud is his mother.
> Kinbote was Charles, deposed the moment he abused Shade.
> Aha, No! He reigned as King over Shade until Shade's AF.
> Well, it will help when I finish PF. I am up to a Vague
> (Cloud==AF) King Alfin (Elfin Koenig=FF) pool reference.
>
> > Frank has acknowledged the safe return of the galleys
> > I had been sent here...
> This is correct only if the galleys are Kinbote himself,
> as, AF as speech act satisfies the Word which is itself.
>
> > ... being forced to orally pleasure Aunt Maud?
> Beautiful! I read over that text without recognizing it.
>
> > ... give me more about the Black Rose Paladins!
> Paladin is a pregnant female carrying hope of salvation.
> Also male Zeus, bearing Athena in his head is a paladin.
> Such is a knower, fallen in a deep crevice of abjection.
>
> Atop Canto three, "l'if" for me accesses the English if,
> a mere conjunction in text, but for a software engineer,
> if indicates a decision point, bifurcating world states.
> I had resolved the Taoist "The truth is neither this nor
> that" using schizophrenic inclusion:" "The truth is this
> AND that" whereas Nabokov appears to have resolved it as
> the possiblility of choice: "The truth is this OR that".
> Thus applied to the Cartesian divide, Nabokov shew faith
> in a realm of consciousness, and disdained several types
> who choose the body: Freud, who called fantasy psychical
> overvaluation; Crowley, who made self-will his only law;
> and Buddhism, who's undecidability is refusal to choose.
>
> I have already seen much to comment upon, in due course.
> If you don't like my hypotheses, you can stop your ears.
>
> Yours truly,
> Glenn Scheper
> http://home.earthlink.net/~glenn_scheper/
> glenn_scheper + at + earthlink.net
> Copyleft(!) Forward freely.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: 16 Jul 2003 13:32:00 -0400
> From: Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net>
> Subject: RE: NPPF: Keith's Shocking Theory (was Preliminary: The Epigraph)
>
> On Wed, 2003-07-16 at 11:10, Jasper Fidget wrote:
>
> > >
> > > Fleur must be hurt or at least discouraged by her lack of success in
> > > seducing young Charles. And Disa who's truly got it bad for her
husband
> > > suffers greatly from his rebuffs. Females suffer in predominantly
> > > homosexual Zembla at least in some part like Hazel suffers in New
Wye..
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Good point, and I would add Garh the farmer's daughter. If Zembla is
K's
> > invention it's almost as if he *wants* women to suffer there, or at
least
> > for their desires to be thwarted (mainly by Charles himself). I wonder
to
> > what extent Zembla is therefore a *negation* of the New Wye world K
finds
> > himself in. (And what happens when matter and anti-matter meet?)
>
>
> Yes, it seems to be that Charles's (Kinbote's) lack of sexual interest
> in females may not be as important in defining his character as his
> manifest desire to cause them to suffer. He invariably makes some
> disparaging remark about those he has "turned down" or merely
> encountered (such as Sybil).
>
> Browning's "My Last Duchess" is alluded to several places. In the poem
> and in the commentary.
>
> P.
>
> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:53:31 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: RE: NPPF - Foreword - Summary / Commentary (2)
>
> > From: David Morris [mailto:fqmorris@yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 12:48 PM
> > To: Jasper Fidget; pynchon-l@waste.org
> > Subject: Re: NPPF - Foreword - Summary / Commentary (2)
> >
> >
> > --- Jasper Fidget <jasper@hatguild.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > "(See my note to line 991.)" The only cross-reference in the
Foreword.
> >
> > Not so. He also points the reader to the *last* line in the Foreword,
but
> > I
> > don't have my book with me now...
>
> Yes, he does reference several lines in the poem but not any of his own
> notes in the Commentary.
>
> >
> > > This cross-reference is also the first of several indications that the
> > Foreword has been written last or close to last, after the Commentary.
> >
> > Again, not so. In the Commentary he corrects his error in calling the
> > sound
> > outside his room as comming from an amusement park, and pointed says
he's
> > not
> > going to fix his earlier error in the text.
> >
> > David Morris
> >
>
> I posted something about this earlier in a similar context. On page 15,
> Kinbote writes, "(See my note to line 991)", and then on page 17 writes,
> "As mentioned, I think, in my last note to the poem", both referring to
the
> commentary as if it already exists; but then as you point out K seems to
> contradict that in his Note to 609-614 (p. 234-235): "diabolical radio
music
> from what I thought was some kind of amusement park across the road -- it
> turned out to be camping tourists."
>
> My first impression was that the Commentary and the Forward had been put
> together out of order, with at least those two Notes (991 and 1000)
> preceding the Foreword, but at least Note 609-614 being written
afterwards,
> but then it occurred to me that the writing must have taken place in
> discrete groups based around location (or what I've been thinking about as
> "planes") rather than according to the structure of Shade's poem. The
Notes
> to 991 and 1000 take place in New Wye, as do all of the cross-references
> that begin from the Note to 991; these must have been written first. The
> set of notes taking place in Zembla, those discussing only the poem
itself,
> and the Foreword must have been written next, and finally those notes
> concerning K's exile in Utana must have been written last, given that they
> refer to the Foreword.
>
> Yet another wrinkle in the questions surrounding the way this thing got to
> the printer.
>
> Jasper
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of pynchon-l-digest V2 #3418
> ********************************