Subject
Fw: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3473 PALE FIre Canto 3
From
Date
Body
----- Original Message -----
From: "pynchon-l-digest" <owner-pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
To: <pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 2:29 PM
Subject: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3473
>
> pynchon-l-digest Friday, August 8 2003 Volume 02 : Number
3473
>
>
>
> Re: Philosophy in a Time of Terror
> Subject: NPPF Canto Three
> Re: VLVL 3 Zoyd & Hector
> Subject: NPPF Canto Three
> Re: VLVL 3 Zoyd & Hector
> re: Hector & Moody
> Re: "Vum-vum vum!" (66)
> RE: VLVL2 (3): The Snitch System (part 1)
> Re: VLVL 3 Who was saved?
> Re: NP address by ex-Veep Al
> Re: [NPPF] Canto Three: The English stuff.. hueshade
> Re: [NPPF] Canto Three: The English stuff.. hueshade
> Re: [NPPF] Canto Three: The English stuff.. hueshade
> Re: [NPPF] Canto Three: The English stuff.. hueshade
> Re: [NPPF] Canto Three: The English stuff.. hueshade
> Re: [NPPF] Canto Three: The English stuff.. hueshade
> [NPPF] Playlist Addition: Tom Traubert's Blues
> [NPPF] Tuna Dumas
> Re: [NPPF] Canto Three: The Catholic stuff.. hyewhades
> re: THE MILITARIZATION OF MEXICO
> Re: VLVL2(3): The Corvairs
> Re: [NPPF] Canto Three: The Catholic stuff.. hyewhades
> VLVL2 (3): Purple Pynchon Prose
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 08:43:51 -0700
> From: "Glenn Scheper" <glenn_scheper@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Subject: NPPF Canto Three
>
> 300 lines doesn't post well. Now trying small part #2:
>
> ---
>
> Mrs Z., AC, is hyped on Richard Crashaw because Crashaw,
> a clear AF, put forth unusual poems--lauding female AC!:
>
> http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04467a.htm
> CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Richard Crashaw
>
> http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/1787/cra-vaughan.html
> richard crashaw, henry vaughan - classical christian poetry
>
> http://www.bartleby.com/101/338.html
> 338. A Hymn to Saint Teresa. Richard Crashaw. The Oxford Book of English
> Verse
>
> http://www.bartleby.com/236/29.html
> 29. The Flaming Heart by Richard Crashaw. Nicholson & Lee, eds. 1917.
> The Oxford Book of English Mystical Verse
>
> http://www.theotherpages.org/poems/crashaw1.html
> Poets' Corner - Richard Crashaw - Selected Works
>
> http://eir.library.utoronto.ca/rpo/display/poem594.html
> RPO -- Richard Crashaw : Wishes to his (Supposed) Mistress
>
> http://www.bartleby.com/101/337.html
> 337. Weeper. Richard Crashaw. The Oxford Book of English Verse
>
> http://www.bartleby.com/101/339.html
> 339. Upon the Book and Picture of Saint Teresa. Richard Crashaw. The
> Oxford Book of English Verse
>
> http://www.bartleby.com/101/342.html
> 342. An Epitaph upon Husband and Wife. Richard Crashaw. The Oxford Book
> of English Verse
>
> I read in him a theological position that an afterlife
> may exist for such persons, and only for such persons,
> which is one possibility that I ponder among several.
>
> That final URL probably has in view the self-wedding.
>
> You know it's funny, I tried to explain in my youth
> to my then girl-friend, now wife, how I had married
> my left-side to my right-side. She tried to beat it
> out of me. Beatings did what doctors never could do.
> To her, I attribute my remission of bipolar symptoms.
>
> ---
>
> L529 - ... Plane / Off Hesperus
>
> Both Poe and Longfellow are on my AF radar screen,
> so if Poe attributes some truth to Wreck, he sees
> the poetic vocabulary in use, but may not have a
> breadth to encompass incest, merely feels disgust.
>
> The father seems to be active agent of the Wreck,
> and the symbols seem consistent with coitus. Yet,
> there is a possibility of her own AC collapsing
> the three Oedipal distinctions (Viz. parent/child,
> alive/dead, male/female - from D&G Anti-Oedipus)
> and drawing the father in. (Similarly, Elfin K.)
>
> L567 - time
>
> These problems arise from envy/resentment. If you
> lay your cards out, full information, accept the
> state of the universe and go on from there--gone.
>
> L648 - nothing
>
> I think the depression in metanoia comes from the
> disappointment due to an insight of the reduction
> of all previously transcendental symbols, and the
> rapid conclusion that nothing remains after them.
>
> L662-4 Who rides?
>
> Elfin Koenig.
>
> L683-4 - Crashaw Club ... Why poetry is meaningful to us.
>
> Behind exoteric poesie is a wealth of insight into
> the experiential tantric domain, full of apparently
> effective influences upon and insights into people,
> not to mention the life-task of orderly exposition.
>
> L702 - rubber sun
>
> 1) suggests Kristeva's "Too Long in the Black Sun"
> 2) overhead pen is
>
.
>
> Yours truly,
> Glenn Scheper
> http://home.earthlink.net/~glenn_scheper/
> glenn_scheper + at + earthlink.net
> Copyleft(!) Forward freely.
>
> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 08:56:55 -0700
> From: "Glenn Scheper" <glenn_scheper@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Subject: NPPF Canto Three
>
> 300 lines doesn't post well. Now trying small part #3:
>
> ---
>
> L707-9 Dark, Fountain, other Atoms
>
> This parallels my psychotic ideation of a vase that at
> once was becoming crazed, and the darkness of the void
> interpenetrated it, crazing, cracking, disintegrating;
> which I now recognize as N+1 dimensional Klein bottle,
> but not with a single interpenetration, but everywhere.
> Also, that destruction and that vessel are one entity.
>
> Since Shade distills the dark out behind the fountain,
> his etiology and possibilities are probably different.
>
> L717-9 Perceptually, only grasped
>
> I say so too. Whether it hangs on taboo, none imagining
> this possibility; or hangs on a wet quantum mechanical
> effect; or is by design; Hades is abject man's domain.
>
> L740 - Constant vertical
>
> Beside AF, suggests biblical "plumbline", a reference.
>
> L746 - Twin display
>
> After AF, one is at utterly alone, as if made alien.
> To find a first other similar indication is amazing.
> My first was in the Tao Te Ching, all I had for years.
> Since Internet, I've turned up fellows left and right.
>
> L749 - Mrs Z, Surgeon, scalpel
>
> A reflexive reference. Mrs. Z *IS* surgeon and scalpel.
>
> L767 - smoke
>
> versus fire -- extended duration of female ejacu1ations?
>
> L759-766 - Schmidt and Smith, no myth
>
> "my sheep hear my voice"
>
> L783-4 - blue, niece, Matterhorn
>
> blue ~ "blew". Little boy blue, come blow your horn.
> I say gk MEGA is a signpost to reflexive references,
> as are all huge tropes: probably heaven, earth, sea.
> Mrs Z. can be her own niece due to Oedipal collapse.
> Mountain is a feminine genital trope; (Mother-horn)
>
> L795-6 - brink of incest
>
> Two people "casting a glamour" is definitely powerful.
>
> L802 - mountain vs. fountain, Majestic
>
> Among my odd tantric meaning deriviation, is that King
> is whomsoever eats the female genital, be it of females,
> self or other, or morphologically male androgynous Pan.
> So the mountain correlates with kingship, majesty. Also
> majesty is of MAGNUS, great, MEGA. Maybe the fountain's
> greatness is its great smallness... Stop the craxy talk!
>
> L805 - abyss (to study)
>
> I said mouth fits abyss to Poe, and find it used in much
> poetry thus, but it doesn't fit my life versus Revelation
> mapping. Rather, I ponder 1esbians as referent to abyss.
> Any standing female has an inverted pit, thus bottomless.
>
> L807 - contrapuntal theme
>
> Develop these fully and you will overcome the patriarchy.
>
> L812 - link and bobolink
>
> bobolink after link invites separating out "bob":
> n 1: a hanging cluster
> v 4: to try to catch suspended or floating fruit in the teeth
>
> L814 - plexed artistry
>
> plie', bent. The self bent over.
>
> L817 - involute abobe
>
> self-intrusive as describe.
>
> L820 - faun
>
> Checked Westers: faun (not fawn) = minor Roman dieties
> .... goatlike ... satyr. My essay's Cerrnunnos anecdote
> has this as male self-suck1ing, a second metamorphosis.
>
> I had some other thoughts, not sure where I saw all this:
>
> http://www.eapoe.org/pstudies/ps1970/p1977102.htm
> The white cataract, instead of the hoped for
> revelation, is the dead end of man's knowledge.
> The writing itself is swallowed up in the abyss
> of the white page (5). ... their source.
> In the cave on Tsalal was a name, "Poe ' and a
> finger (Poe's) pointing the direction to the source
>
> - - If not AF, then coitus as totalized by an AF. Finger=pen is.
>
> "I have graven it within the hills, and my vengeance upon
> the dust within the rock."
>
> The dust is clearly related to seed, offspring, and
> is consistent with Revelation's men "hid themselves
> in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains" as
> of ordinary dyadic coitus, and producing offspring.
>
> Pope, Essay on Man
>
> Like a null hypothesis, proves that I cannot read AF
> into any arbitrary texts. Devoid of all AF insights.
> That Shade finished him benotes a dependence on non-
> gnostic Cartesian enlightenment reasoning, deficient.
>
> Alfred's Boethius: Modern English Translation
>
> Lauds conservatism and deferred gratification; Uses
> religious terms without any correlation to AF domain.
> His fountain is in the subjunctive; He has it not:
> > Oh! truly blessed a man would be
> > Here in all things, had he the power to see
> > The bright and spotless heavenly stream,
> > That grand fountain of every good;
>
> Yours truly,
> Glenn Scheper
> http://home.earthlink.net/~glenn_scheper/
> glenn_scheper + at + earthlink.net
> Copyleft(!) Forward freely.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 09:53:16 -0700
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: Re: [NPPF] Canto Three: The English stuff.. hueshade
>
> >>>Well, no... hue = color<<<
>
> Nabokov is not limited to the primary definition of a word. His usage of
> 'shadow' in the first line of the Pale Fire poem is a case in point. If
you
> limit your understanding of 'shadow' to the primary definition it doesn't
> lead very far. However, if you use a dictionary, as Nabokov recommends,
> multiple possibilities for the use of the term and its relevance to the
> novel, esp. John Shade's identity, are revealed. And its usage as
'mirrored
> image' is far down the list at #9.
>
> shadow
>
> SYLLABICATION: shad╥ow
> PRONUNCIATION: shd
> NOUN: 1. An area that is not or is only partially irradiated or
illuminated
> because of the interception of radiation by an opaque object between the
> area and the source of radiation. 2. The rough image cast by an object
> blocking rays of illumination. See synonyms at shade. 3. An imperfect
> imitation or copy. 4. shadows The darkness following sunset. 5. A feeling
or
> cause of gloom or unhappiness: The argument cast a shadow on their
> friendship. 6a. A nearby or adjoining region; vicinity: grew up in the
> shadow of the ballpark. b. A dominating presence or influence: spent years
> working in the shadow of the lab director. 7a. A darkened area of skin
under
> the eye. Often used in the plural. b. An incipient growth of beard that
> makes the skin look darker. 8. A shaded area in a picture or photograph.
9.
> A mirrored image or reflection. 10. A phantom; a ghost. 11a. One, such as
a
> detective or spy, that follows or trails another. b. A constant companion.
> c. Sports A player who guards an opponent closely. 12. A faint indication;
a
> foreshadowing. 13. A vestige or inferior form: shadows of their past
> achievements. 14. An insignificant portion or amount; a trace: beyond a
> shadow of a doubt. 15. Shelter; protection: under the shadow of their
> corporate sponsor.
> VERB: Inflected forms: shad╥owed, shad╥ow╥ing, shad╥ows
>
> TRANSITIVE VERB: 1. To cast a shadow on; shade. 2. To make gloomy or dark;
> cloud. 3. To represent vaguely, mysteriously, or prophetically. 4. To
darken
> in a painting or drawing; shade in. 5. To follow, especially in secret;
> trail. 6. Sports To guard (an opponent) closely throughout the playing
area,
> especially in ice hockey.
> INTRANSITIVE VERB: 1. To change by gradual degrees. 2. To become clouded
> over as if with shadows: Her face shadowed with sorrow.
> ADJECTIVE: Not having official status: a shadow government of exiled
> leaders; a shadow cabinet.
> ETYMOLOGY: Middle English, from Old English sceaduwe, oblique case of
> sceadu, shade, shadow.
> OTHER FORMS: shadow╥er -NOUN
>
> WORD HISTORY: Shade and shadow are not only related in meaning;
historically
> they are the same word. In Old English, the ancestor of Modern English
> spoken a thousand years ago, nouns were inflected; that is, they had
> different forms depending on how they were used in a sentence. One of the
> inflected forms of the Old English noun sceadu, translatable as either
> "shade" or "shadow," was sceaduwe; this form was used when the word was
> preceded by a preposition (as in in sceaduwe, "in the shade, in shadow").
As
> time went on these two forms of the same word were interpreted as two
> separate words. The same thing happened to other Old English words, too:
our
> mead and meadow come from two different case-forms of the same Old English
> word for "meadow."
> http://www.bartleby.com/61/90/S0309000.html
>
> Similarly, with 'hue,' the dictionary reveals that it can indeed signify
> 'shade.'
>
> hue
>
> NOUN: 1. The property of colors by which they can be perceived as ranging
> from red through yellow, green, and blue, as determined by the dominant
> wavelength of the light. See table at color. 2. A particular gradation of
> color; a shade or tint. 3. Color: all the hues of the rainbow. 4.
> Appearance; aspect: a man of somber hue.
> ETYMOLOGY: Middle English, color, form, from Old English hw, ho.
> http://www.bartleby.com/61/37/H0313700.html
>
> The poem's opening line can mean many things depending on, (among other
> factors) which definitions of 'shadow' and 'slain' are used.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 13:20:50 -0400
> From: Terrance <lycidas2@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [NPPF] Canto Three: The English stuff.. hueshade
>
>
> > Nabokov is not limited to the primary definition of a word.
>
> Primary? Meaning the definition appearing first in a dictionary entry?
> Well, in most dictionaries that would mean the meaning most frequently
> used by speakers at the time the dictionary was compiled. Of course some
> dictionaries list definitions by semantic evolution or whatever. While
> it's quite obvious that N is not limited to the "primary" definition,
> how we determine what definition or definitions (puns, anagrams, etc.)
> he has in mind when he uses a particular word (i.e., Shadow) is not as
> easy as looking up successive definitions in a dictionary. One needs to
> use the imagination as well. And, no finer imagination exists than the
> one excited by a book tingling the top of the spine.
>
> You go girl,
>
> Jane
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 10:41:23 -0700
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: Re: [NPPF] Canto Three: The English stuff.. hueshade
>
> >>>how we determine what definition or definitions (puns, anagrams, etc.)
> he has in mind when he uses a particular word (i.e., Shadow) is not as
> easy as looking up successive definitions in a dictionary.<<<
>
> Damn. Just when I thought I'd found a short-cut.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 11:21:17 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [NPPF] Canto Three: The English stuff.. hueshade
>
> - --- s~Z <keithsz@concentric.net> wrote:
> > >>>Well, no... hue = color<<<
> >
> > Nabokov is not limited to the primary definition of a word.
>
> But one would hope that he understood the diffremce betweem HUE (color)
and
> VALUE (shade).
>
> http://char.txa.cornell.edu/language/element/color/color.htm
>
> "The word COLOR is the general term which applies to the whole subject -
red,
> orange, yellow, green, blue, violet, black and white and all possible
> combinations thereof. HUE is the correct word to use to refer to just the
pure
> spectrum colors. Any given color can be described in terms of its VALUE
and
> HUE.
>
> "VALUE is defined as the relative lightness or darkness of a color."
>
> " Hue is the term for the pure spectrum colors commonly referred to by the
> "color names" - red, orange, yellow, blue, green violet - which appear in
the
> hue circle or rainbow. Theoretically all hues can be mixed from three
basic
> hues, known as primaries. "
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 14:23:16 -0400
> From: "cfalbert" <calbert@hslboxmaster.com>
> Subject: Re: [NPPF] Canto Three: The English stuff.. hueshade
>
> Don't give up, Pard......you were on the right track..
>
>
> "in the context, however, Pope's Zembla is an image not of distance but of
> relativity - and relativity precisely where it might seem to have little
> place, in matters of compass points and of vice. We cannot agree on the
> location of 'th'Extreme of Vice' Pope suggests, any more than we can
finally
> settle where North is:
>
> "Ask where's the North? At York, 'tis on the Tweed;
> In Scotland, at the Orcades, and there,
> At Greenland, Zembla, or the Lord knows where:
> No creature owns it in the first degree,
> But thinks his neighbour farther gone than he."
>
> The brilliant, multiplying jokes take the breath away; even Nabokov looks
a
> very modest magician alongside this performance. "It" is both vice and the
> north, "owns" is both possession and confession; "degree" is latitude in
> every sense and also grade, stage, grammatical term, social condition, and
> what the dictionary calls a "step in direct geneological descent";
"farther
> gone" makes sure that both geography and morality are still in play. This
is
> part of what Pope means when he speaks of his concision, says he can
express
> his 'principles, maxims or precepts...more shortly' in verse than in
prose."
>
> The Magicians Doubts - Michael Wood, pg 187
>
> love,
> cfa
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> To: <pynchon-l@waste.org>
> Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 1:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [NPPF] Canto Three: The English stuff.. hueshade
>
>
> > >>>how we determine what definition or definitions (puns, anagrams,
etc.)
> > he has in mind when he uses a particular word (i.e., Shadow) is not as
> > easy as looking up successive definitions in a dictionary.<<<
> >
> > Damn. Just when I thought I'd found a short-cut.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 11:33:23 -0700
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: Re: [NPPF] Canto Three: The English stuff.. hueshade
>
> >>>Don't give up, Pard......you were on the right track..<<<
>
> Damn. I thought I was on the left track.
>
> I am artistically caged.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 13:26:17 -0700
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: [NPPF] Tuna Dumas
>
> Recipe for Aunt Maud's golden paste:
>
> Ingredient: Aunt Maud's
>
> Directions:
>
> Separate into AUNT and MAUD'S
> Put AUNT into blender; puree into TUNA
> Now place MAUD'S into blender and mix until DUMAS
> Add the fishy taste of tuna and the sweet taste of Dumas
> in equal parts and lick straight from the mixing bowl.
>
> Alexandre Dumas: The Man in the Iron Mask
> Chapter 6: The Bee-Hive, the Bees, and the Honey
>
> [an excerpt]
>
> Loret was composing an account of the fetes of Vaux, before those fetes
had
> taken place. La Fontaine sauntered about among them,- a wandering,
> absent-minded, boring, unbearable shade, buzzing and humming at
everybody's
> shoulder a thousand poetic inanities. He so often disturbed PИlisson, that
> the latter, raising his head, crossly said, "At least, La Fontaine, supply
> me with a rhyme, since you say you have the run of the gardens at
> Parnassus."
>
> "What rhyme do you want?" asked the Fabler, as Madame de Sevigne used to
> call him.
>
> "I want a rhyme to lumiere."
>
> "Orniere," answered La Fontaine.
>
> "Ah, but my good friend, one cannot talk of wheel-ruts when celebrating
the
> delights of Vaux," said Loret.
>
> "Besides, it doesn't rhyme," answered PИlisson.
>
> "How! doesn't rhyme?" cried La Fontaine, in surprise.
>
> "Yes; you have an abominable habit, my friend,- a habit which will ever
> prevent your becoming a poet of the first order. You rhyme in a slovenly
> manner."
>
> "Oh! oh! you think so, do you, PИlisson?"
>
> "Yes, I do, indeed. Remember that a rhyme is never good so long as one can
> find a better."
>
> "Then I will never write anything again but in prose," said La Fontaine,
who
> had taken up PИlisson's reproach in earnest. "Ah, I often suspected I was
> nothing but a rascally poet! Yes, 'tis the very truth."
>
> "Do not say so; your remark is too sweeping, and there is much that is
good
> in your 'Fables.'"
>
> "And to begin," continued La Fontaine, following up his idea, "I will go
and
> burn a hundred verses I have just made."
>
> "Where are your verses?"
>
> "In my head."
>
> "Well, if they are in your head you cannot burn them."
>
> "True," said La Fontaine; "but if I do not burn them-"
>
> "Well, what will happen if you do not burn them?"
>
> "They will remain in my mind, and I shall never forget them."
>
> "The devil!" cried Loret; "what a dangerous thing! One would go mad with
> it!"
>
> "The devil, devil, devil!" repeated La Fontaine; "what can I do?"
>
> "I have discovered the way," said Moliere, who had entered during the last
> words of the conversation.
>
> "What way?"
>
> "Write them first and burn them afterwards."
> - -------------------------------------------------------------
>
> And it was not only non-party people
> who wanted on this fact to base their
> tactics of setting up a non-revolutionary
> Social-Democracy, but also those
> "Bezzaglavtsi" Social-Democrat-like
> intellectuals who clustered around the
> Duma group like flies round a honey-pot.
>
> V. I. Lenin
> ON THE STRAIGHT ROAD
> Published in the newspaper
> Proletary, No. 26,
> March 19 (April 1), 1908
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 12:28:11 -0700
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: Re: [NPPF] Canto Three: The Catholic stuff.. hyewhades
>
> >>>HUE is the correct word to use to refer to just the pure
> spectrum colors. <<<
>
> You just can't trust that VN is willing to use words 'correctly,'
especially
> when the word with which we started was 'Hugh.' And your confusion about
> denotations and connotations is understandable, as even in ADA there arise
> the pertinent questions, "whose hue?" and "Hue or who?" (p.9, Vintage pb)
> John Entwhistle, VN, Abbot, and Costello are sharing a Turk's delight and
> laughing their asses off. And, if I may interject, there on the same p.9
of
> ADA we see reference to another smelly paste, as Van has lost his
enjoyment
> of the 'perfumed gum of Turkish paste' another name for Turkish Delight
(cf,
> PF poem, line 224). I find in scanning and tossing much of what has been
> written in the name of Nabokov criticism, that it suffers from the same
> annoyances as Pynchon criticism, namely that a lot of the text is simply
> ignored. This is a familiar tactic in my Christian fundamentalist roots,
and
> it is as offensive here as it was there. I do realize that to put together
a
> cohesive statement about these insane and brilliant authors requires some
> Occamic shaving, but this grooming exercise is taking place before a
mirror,
> and the critic is indeed the shadow and the pheasant. So, I have decided
to
> ignore the great body of Nabokov criticism and fuck around with the text
on
> my own, creating my own annoyances, reflections and footprints. Speaking
of
> which, during this week of Canto Three, I would be abdicating my role as a
> mandated reporter not to mention line 796, which brings us back to "whose
> hue?" There are many answers to this query. One can be found in the bio of
> one St. Adelaida (sic), namesake of Ada:
>
> St. Adelaide
>
> Born 931; died 16 December, 999, one of the conspicuous characters in the
> struggle of Otto the great to obtain the imperial crown from the Roman
> Pontiffs. She was the daughter of Rudolph II, King of Burgundy, who was at
> war with Hugh of Provence for the crown of Italy. The rivals concluded a
> peace in 933, by which it was stipulated that Adelaide should marry Hugh's
> son Lothaire. The marriage took place, however, only fourteen years later;
> Adelaide's mother meantime married Hugh.
>
> Oh my, the saint has married her step-brother. More sordid details of
> political intrigue and perhaps PF relevance can be found at
> http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01140c.htm
>
> And while we're enjoying a Frigg's Day stretch, it is also curious that
one
> of St. Adelaide's daughters (courtesy of her marriage to Otto following
the
> death of her step-brother) is none other than Maud of Quedlinburg:
> http://www.geocities.com/mizzmelisende/woman51.html
>
> It is also simply spine tingling that one of the patron saints of the
*death
> of children* is St. Maud.
> http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/saintm29.htm
>
> Now please excuse me, I must soak my sphincters.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 14:07:46 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [NPPF] Canto Three: The Catholic stuff.. hyewhades
>
> - --- s~Z <keithsz@concentric.net> wrote:
> > >>>HUE is the correct word to use to refer to just the pure spectrum
colors.
> <<<
> >
> > You just can't trust that VN is willing to use words 'correctly,'
especially
> when the word with which we started was 'Hugh.' And your confusion about
> denotations and connotations is understandable, as even in ADA there arise
the
> pertinent questions, "whose hue?" and "Hue or who?" (p.9, Vintage pb)
>
> Seems you are confusing my refusal to leave obvious error (hue = shade)
> standing with "my confusion." I seriously doubt VN would be that sloppy
with
> his word play. But you do seem to have found some interesting tidbits
below:
>
> DM
>
> > St. Adelaide
> >
> > Born 931; died 16 December, 999, one of the conspicuous characters in
the
> > struggle of Otto the great to obtain the imperial crown from the Roman
> > Pontiffs. She was the daughter of Rudolph II, King of Burgundy, who was
at
> > war with Hugh of Provence for the crown of Italy. The rivals concluded a
> > peace in 933, by which it was stipulated that Adelaide should marry
Hugh's
> > son Lothaire. The marriage took place, however, only fourteen years
later;
> > Adelaide's mother meantime married Hugh.
> >
> > Oh my, the saint has married her step-brother. More sordid details of
> > political intrigue and perhaps PF relevance can be found at
> > http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01140c.htm
> >
> > And while we're enjoying a Frigg's Day stretch, it is also curious that
one
> > of St. Adelaide's daughters (courtesy of her marriage to Otto following
the
> > death of her step-brother) is none other than Maud of Quedlinburg:
> > http://www.geocities.com/mizzmelisende/woman51.html
> >
> > It is also simply spine tingling that one of the patron saints of the
*death
> > of children* is St. Maud.
> > http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/saintm29.htm
> >
> > Now please excuse me, I must soak my sphincters.
> >
> >
> End of pynchon-l-digest V2 #3473
> ********************************
>
> To unsubscribe, send a message to waste@waste.org
> with "unsubscribe pynchon-l-digest" in the message body.
From: "pynchon-l-digest" <owner-pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
To: <pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 2:29 PM
Subject: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3473
>
> pynchon-l-digest Friday, August 8 2003 Volume 02 : Number
3473
>
>
>
> Re: Philosophy in a Time of Terror
> Subject: NPPF Canto Three
> Re: VLVL 3 Zoyd & Hector
> Subject: NPPF Canto Three
> Re: VLVL 3 Zoyd & Hector
> re: Hector & Moody
> Re: "Vum-vum vum!" (66)
> RE: VLVL2 (3): The Snitch System (part 1)
> Re: VLVL 3 Who was saved?
> Re: NP address by ex-Veep Al
> Re: [NPPF] Canto Three: The English stuff.. hueshade
> Re: [NPPF] Canto Three: The English stuff.. hueshade
> Re: [NPPF] Canto Three: The English stuff.. hueshade
> Re: [NPPF] Canto Three: The English stuff.. hueshade
> Re: [NPPF] Canto Three: The English stuff.. hueshade
> Re: [NPPF] Canto Three: The English stuff.. hueshade
> [NPPF] Playlist Addition: Tom Traubert's Blues
> [NPPF] Tuna Dumas
> Re: [NPPF] Canto Three: The Catholic stuff.. hyewhades
> re: THE MILITARIZATION OF MEXICO
> Re: VLVL2(3): The Corvairs
> Re: [NPPF] Canto Three: The Catholic stuff.. hyewhades
> VLVL2 (3): Purple Pynchon Prose
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 08:43:51 -0700
> From: "Glenn Scheper" <glenn_scheper@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Subject: NPPF Canto Three
>
> 300 lines doesn't post well. Now trying small part #2:
>
> ---
>
> Mrs Z., AC, is hyped on Richard Crashaw because Crashaw,
> a clear AF, put forth unusual poems--lauding female AC!:
>
> http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04467a.htm
> CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Richard Crashaw
>
> http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/1787/cra-vaughan.html
> richard crashaw, henry vaughan - classical christian poetry
>
> http://www.bartleby.com/101/338.html
> 338. A Hymn to Saint Teresa. Richard Crashaw. The Oxford Book of English
> Verse
>
> http://www.bartleby.com/236/29.html
> 29. The Flaming Heart by Richard Crashaw. Nicholson & Lee, eds. 1917.
> The Oxford Book of English Mystical Verse
>
> http://www.theotherpages.org/poems/crashaw1.html
> Poets' Corner - Richard Crashaw - Selected Works
>
> http://eir.library.utoronto.ca/rpo/display/poem594.html
> RPO -- Richard Crashaw : Wishes to his (Supposed) Mistress
>
> http://www.bartleby.com/101/337.html
> 337. Weeper. Richard Crashaw. The Oxford Book of English Verse
>
> http://www.bartleby.com/101/339.html
> 339. Upon the Book and Picture of Saint Teresa. Richard Crashaw. The
> Oxford Book of English Verse
>
> http://www.bartleby.com/101/342.html
> 342. An Epitaph upon Husband and Wife. Richard Crashaw. The Oxford Book
> of English Verse
>
> I read in him a theological position that an afterlife
> may exist for such persons, and only for such persons,
> which is one possibility that I ponder among several.
>
> That final URL probably has in view the self-wedding.
>
> You know it's funny, I tried to explain in my youth
> to my then girl-friend, now wife, how I had married
> my left-side to my right-side. She tried to beat it
> out of me. Beatings did what doctors never could do.
> To her, I attribute my remission of bipolar symptoms.
>
> ---
>
> L529 - ... Plane / Off Hesperus
>
> Both Poe and Longfellow are on my AF radar screen,
> so if Poe attributes some truth to Wreck, he sees
> the poetic vocabulary in use, but may not have a
> breadth to encompass incest, merely feels disgust.
>
> The father seems to be active agent of the Wreck,
> and the symbols seem consistent with coitus. Yet,
> there is a possibility of her own AC collapsing
> the three Oedipal distinctions (Viz. parent/child,
> alive/dead, male/female - from D&G Anti-Oedipus)
> and drawing the father in. (Similarly, Elfin K.)
>
> L567 - time
>
> These problems arise from envy/resentment. If you
> lay your cards out, full information, accept the
> state of the universe and go on from there--gone.
>
> L648 - nothing
>
> I think the depression in metanoia comes from the
> disappointment due to an insight of the reduction
> of all previously transcendental symbols, and the
> rapid conclusion that nothing remains after them.
>
> L662-4 Who rides?
>
> Elfin Koenig.
>
> L683-4 - Crashaw Club ... Why poetry is meaningful to us.
>
> Behind exoteric poesie is a wealth of insight into
> the experiential tantric domain, full of apparently
> effective influences upon and insights into people,
> not to mention the life-task of orderly exposition.
>
> L702 - rubber sun
>
> 1) suggests Kristeva's "Too Long in the Black Sun"
> 2) overhead pen is
>
.
>
> Yours truly,
> Glenn Scheper
> http://home.earthlink.net/~glenn_scheper/
> glenn_scheper + at + earthlink.net
> Copyleft(!) Forward freely.
>
> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 08:56:55 -0700
> From: "Glenn Scheper" <glenn_scheper@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Subject: NPPF Canto Three
>
> 300 lines doesn't post well. Now trying small part #3:
>
> ---
>
> L707-9 Dark, Fountain, other Atoms
>
> This parallels my psychotic ideation of a vase that at
> once was becoming crazed, and the darkness of the void
> interpenetrated it, crazing, cracking, disintegrating;
> which I now recognize as N+1 dimensional Klein bottle,
> but not with a single interpenetration, but everywhere.
> Also, that destruction and that vessel are one entity.
>
> Since Shade distills the dark out behind the fountain,
> his etiology and possibilities are probably different.
>
> L717-9 Perceptually, only grasped
>
> I say so too. Whether it hangs on taboo, none imagining
> this possibility; or hangs on a wet quantum mechanical
> effect; or is by design; Hades is abject man's domain.
>
> L740 - Constant vertical
>
> Beside AF, suggests biblical "plumbline", a reference.
>
> L746 - Twin display
>
> After AF, one is at utterly alone, as if made alien.
> To find a first other similar indication is amazing.
> My first was in the Tao Te Ching, all I had for years.
> Since Internet, I've turned up fellows left and right.
>
> L749 - Mrs Z, Surgeon, scalpel
>
> A reflexive reference. Mrs. Z *IS* surgeon and scalpel.
>
> L767 - smoke
>
> versus fire -- extended duration of female ejacu1ations?
>
> L759-766 - Schmidt and Smith, no myth
>
> "my sheep hear my voice"
>
> L783-4 - blue, niece, Matterhorn
>
> blue ~ "blew". Little boy blue, come blow your horn.
> I say gk MEGA is a signpost to reflexive references,
> as are all huge tropes: probably heaven, earth, sea.
> Mrs Z. can be her own niece due to Oedipal collapse.
> Mountain is a feminine genital trope; (Mother-horn)
>
> L795-6 - brink of incest
>
> Two people "casting a glamour" is definitely powerful.
>
> L802 - mountain vs. fountain, Majestic
>
> Among my odd tantric meaning deriviation, is that King
> is whomsoever eats the female genital, be it of females,
> self or other, or morphologically male androgynous Pan.
> So the mountain correlates with kingship, majesty. Also
> majesty is of MAGNUS, great, MEGA. Maybe the fountain's
> greatness is its great smallness... Stop the craxy talk!
>
> L805 - abyss (to study)
>
> I said mouth fits abyss to Poe, and find it used in much
> poetry thus, but it doesn't fit my life versus Revelation
> mapping. Rather, I ponder 1esbians as referent to abyss.
> Any standing female has an inverted pit, thus bottomless.
>
> L807 - contrapuntal theme
>
> Develop these fully and you will overcome the patriarchy.
>
> L812 - link and bobolink
>
> bobolink after link invites separating out "bob":
> n 1: a hanging cluster
> v 4: to try to catch suspended or floating fruit in the teeth
>
> L814 - plexed artistry
>
> plie', bent. The self bent over.
>
> L817 - involute abobe
>
> self-intrusive as describe.
>
> L820 - faun
>
> Checked Westers: faun (not fawn) = minor Roman dieties
> .... goatlike ... satyr. My essay's Cerrnunnos anecdote
> has this as male self-suck1ing, a second metamorphosis.
>
> I had some other thoughts, not sure where I saw all this:
>
> http://www.eapoe.org/pstudies/ps1970/p1977102.htm
> The white cataract, instead of the hoped for
> revelation, is the dead end of man's knowledge.
> The writing itself is swallowed up in the abyss
> of the white page (5). ... their source.
> In the cave on Tsalal was a name, "Poe ' and a
> finger (Poe's) pointing the direction to the source
>
> - - If not AF, then coitus as totalized by an AF. Finger=pen is.
>
> "I have graven it within the hills, and my vengeance upon
> the dust within the rock."
>
> The dust is clearly related to seed, offspring, and
> is consistent with Revelation's men "hid themselves
> in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains" as
> of ordinary dyadic coitus, and producing offspring.
>
> Pope, Essay on Man
>
> Like a null hypothesis, proves that I cannot read AF
> into any arbitrary texts. Devoid of all AF insights.
> That Shade finished him benotes a dependence on non-
> gnostic Cartesian enlightenment reasoning, deficient.
>
> Alfred's Boethius: Modern English Translation
>
> Lauds conservatism and deferred gratification; Uses
> religious terms without any correlation to AF domain.
> His fountain is in the subjunctive; He has it not:
> > Oh! truly blessed a man would be
> > Here in all things, had he the power to see
> > The bright and spotless heavenly stream,
> > That grand fountain of every good;
>
> Yours truly,
> Glenn Scheper
> http://home.earthlink.net/~glenn_scheper/
> glenn_scheper + at + earthlink.net
> Copyleft(!) Forward freely.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 09:53:16 -0700
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: Re: [NPPF] Canto Three: The English stuff.. hueshade
>
> >>>Well, no... hue = color<<<
>
> Nabokov is not limited to the primary definition of a word. His usage of
> 'shadow' in the first line of the Pale Fire poem is a case in point. If
you
> limit your understanding of 'shadow' to the primary definition it doesn't
> lead very far. However, if you use a dictionary, as Nabokov recommends,
> multiple possibilities for the use of the term and its relevance to the
> novel, esp. John Shade's identity, are revealed. And its usage as
'mirrored
> image' is far down the list at #9.
>
> shadow
>
> SYLLABICATION: shad╥ow
> PRONUNCIATION: shd
> NOUN: 1. An area that is not or is only partially irradiated or
illuminated
> because of the interception of radiation by an opaque object between the
> area and the source of radiation. 2. The rough image cast by an object
> blocking rays of illumination. See synonyms at shade. 3. An imperfect
> imitation or copy. 4. shadows The darkness following sunset. 5. A feeling
or
> cause of gloom or unhappiness: The argument cast a shadow on their
> friendship. 6a. A nearby or adjoining region; vicinity: grew up in the
> shadow of the ballpark. b. A dominating presence or influence: spent years
> working in the shadow of the lab director. 7a. A darkened area of skin
under
> the eye. Often used in the plural. b. An incipient growth of beard that
> makes the skin look darker. 8. A shaded area in a picture or photograph.
9.
> A mirrored image or reflection. 10. A phantom; a ghost. 11a. One, such as
a
> detective or spy, that follows or trails another. b. A constant companion.
> c. Sports A player who guards an opponent closely. 12. A faint indication;
a
> foreshadowing. 13. A vestige or inferior form: shadows of their past
> achievements. 14. An insignificant portion or amount; a trace: beyond a
> shadow of a doubt. 15. Shelter; protection: under the shadow of their
> corporate sponsor.
> VERB: Inflected forms: shad╥owed, shad╥ow╥ing, shad╥ows
>
> TRANSITIVE VERB: 1. To cast a shadow on; shade. 2. To make gloomy or dark;
> cloud. 3. To represent vaguely, mysteriously, or prophetically. 4. To
darken
> in a painting or drawing; shade in. 5. To follow, especially in secret;
> trail. 6. Sports To guard (an opponent) closely throughout the playing
area,
> especially in ice hockey.
> INTRANSITIVE VERB: 1. To change by gradual degrees. 2. To become clouded
> over as if with shadows: Her face shadowed with sorrow.
> ADJECTIVE: Not having official status: a shadow government of exiled
> leaders; a shadow cabinet.
> ETYMOLOGY: Middle English, from Old English sceaduwe, oblique case of
> sceadu, shade, shadow.
> OTHER FORMS: shadow╥er -NOUN
>
> WORD HISTORY: Shade and shadow are not only related in meaning;
historically
> they are the same word. In Old English, the ancestor of Modern English
> spoken a thousand years ago, nouns were inflected; that is, they had
> different forms depending on how they were used in a sentence. One of the
> inflected forms of the Old English noun sceadu, translatable as either
> "shade" or "shadow," was sceaduwe; this form was used when the word was
> preceded by a preposition (as in in sceaduwe, "in the shade, in shadow").
As
> time went on these two forms of the same word were interpreted as two
> separate words. The same thing happened to other Old English words, too:
our
> mead and meadow come from two different case-forms of the same Old English
> word for "meadow."
> http://www.bartleby.com/61/90/S0309000.html
>
> Similarly, with 'hue,' the dictionary reveals that it can indeed signify
> 'shade.'
>
> hue
>
> NOUN: 1. The property of colors by which they can be perceived as ranging
> from red through yellow, green, and blue, as determined by the dominant
> wavelength of the light. See table at color. 2. A particular gradation of
> color; a shade or tint. 3. Color: all the hues of the rainbow. 4.
> Appearance; aspect: a man of somber hue.
> ETYMOLOGY: Middle English, color, form, from Old English hw, ho.
> http://www.bartleby.com/61/37/H0313700.html
>
> The poem's opening line can mean many things depending on, (among other
> factors) which definitions of 'shadow' and 'slain' are used.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 13:20:50 -0400
> From: Terrance <lycidas2@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [NPPF] Canto Three: The English stuff.. hueshade
>
>
> > Nabokov is not limited to the primary definition of a word.
>
> Primary? Meaning the definition appearing first in a dictionary entry?
> Well, in most dictionaries that would mean the meaning most frequently
> used by speakers at the time the dictionary was compiled. Of course some
> dictionaries list definitions by semantic evolution or whatever. While
> it's quite obvious that N is not limited to the "primary" definition,
> how we determine what definition or definitions (puns, anagrams, etc.)
> he has in mind when he uses a particular word (i.e., Shadow) is not as
> easy as looking up successive definitions in a dictionary. One needs to
> use the imagination as well. And, no finer imagination exists than the
> one excited by a book tingling the top of the spine.
>
> You go girl,
>
> Jane
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 10:41:23 -0700
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: Re: [NPPF] Canto Three: The English stuff.. hueshade
>
> >>>how we determine what definition or definitions (puns, anagrams, etc.)
> he has in mind when he uses a particular word (i.e., Shadow) is not as
> easy as looking up successive definitions in a dictionary.<<<
>
> Damn. Just when I thought I'd found a short-cut.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 11:21:17 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [NPPF] Canto Three: The English stuff.. hueshade
>
> - --- s~Z <keithsz@concentric.net> wrote:
> > >>>Well, no... hue = color<<<
> >
> > Nabokov is not limited to the primary definition of a word.
>
> But one would hope that he understood the diffremce betweem HUE (color)
and
> VALUE (shade).
>
> http://char.txa.cornell.edu/language/element/color/color.htm
>
> "The word COLOR is the general term which applies to the whole subject -
red,
> orange, yellow, green, blue, violet, black and white and all possible
> combinations thereof. HUE is the correct word to use to refer to just the
pure
> spectrum colors. Any given color can be described in terms of its VALUE
and
> HUE.
>
> "VALUE is defined as the relative lightness or darkness of a color."
>
> " Hue is the term for the pure spectrum colors commonly referred to by the
> "color names" - red, orange, yellow, blue, green violet - which appear in
the
> hue circle or rainbow. Theoretically all hues can be mixed from three
basic
> hues, known as primaries. "
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 14:23:16 -0400
> From: "cfalbert" <calbert@hslboxmaster.com>
> Subject: Re: [NPPF] Canto Three: The English stuff.. hueshade
>
> Don't give up, Pard......you were on the right track..
>
>
> "in the context, however, Pope's Zembla is an image not of distance but of
> relativity - and relativity precisely where it might seem to have little
> place, in matters of compass points and of vice. We cannot agree on the
> location of 'th'Extreme of Vice' Pope suggests, any more than we can
finally
> settle where North is:
>
> "Ask where's the North? At York, 'tis on the Tweed;
> In Scotland, at the Orcades, and there,
> At Greenland, Zembla, or the Lord knows where:
> No creature owns it in the first degree,
> But thinks his neighbour farther gone than he."
>
> The brilliant, multiplying jokes take the breath away; even Nabokov looks
a
> very modest magician alongside this performance. "It" is both vice and the
> north, "owns" is both possession and confession; "degree" is latitude in
> every sense and also grade, stage, grammatical term, social condition, and
> what the dictionary calls a "step in direct geneological descent";
"farther
> gone" makes sure that both geography and morality are still in play. This
is
> part of what Pope means when he speaks of his concision, says he can
express
> his 'principles, maxims or precepts...more shortly' in verse than in
prose."
>
> The Magicians Doubts - Michael Wood, pg 187
>
> love,
> cfa
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> To: <pynchon-l@waste.org>
> Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 1:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [NPPF] Canto Three: The English stuff.. hueshade
>
>
> > >>>how we determine what definition or definitions (puns, anagrams,
etc.)
> > he has in mind when he uses a particular word (i.e., Shadow) is not as
> > easy as looking up successive definitions in a dictionary.<<<
> >
> > Damn. Just when I thought I'd found a short-cut.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 11:33:23 -0700
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: Re: [NPPF] Canto Three: The English stuff.. hueshade
>
> >>>Don't give up, Pard......you were on the right track..<<<
>
> Damn. I thought I was on the left track.
>
> I am artistically caged.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 13:26:17 -0700
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: [NPPF] Tuna Dumas
>
> Recipe for Aunt Maud's golden paste:
>
> Ingredient: Aunt Maud's
>
> Directions:
>
> Separate into AUNT and MAUD'S
> Put AUNT into blender; puree into TUNA
> Now place MAUD'S into blender and mix until DUMAS
> Add the fishy taste of tuna and the sweet taste of Dumas
> in equal parts and lick straight from the mixing bowl.
>
> Alexandre Dumas: The Man in the Iron Mask
> Chapter 6: The Bee-Hive, the Bees, and the Honey
>
> [an excerpt]
>
> Loret was composing an account of the fetes of Vaux, before those fetes
had
> taken place. La Fontaine sauntered about among them,- a wandering,
> absent-minded, boring, unbearable shade, buzzing and humming at
everybody's
> shoulder a thousand poetic inanities. He so often disturbed PИlisson, that
> the latter, raising his head, crossly said, "At least, La Fontaine, supply
> me with a rhyme, since you say you have the run of the gardens at
> Parnassus."
>
> "What rhyme do you want?" asked the Fabler, as Madame de Sevigne used to
> call him.
>
> "I want a rhyme to lumiere."
>
> "Orniere," answered La Fontaine.
>
> "Ah, but my good friend, one cannot talk of wheel-ruts when celebrating
the
> delights of Vaux," said Loret.
>
> "Besides, it doesn't rhyme," answered PИlisson.
>
> "How! doesn't rhyme?" cried La Fontaine, in surprise.
>
> "Yes; you have an abominable habit, my friend,- a habit which will ever
> prevent your becoming a poet of the first order. You rhyme in a slovenly
> manner."
>
> "Oh! oh! you think so, do you, PИlisson?"
>
> "Yes, I do, indeed. Remember that a rhyme is never good so long as one can
> find a better."
>
> "Then I will never write anything again but in prose," said La Fontaine,
who
> had taken up PИlisson's reproach in earnest. "Ah, I often suspected I was
> nothing but a rascally poet! Yes, 'tis the very truth."
>
> "Do not say so; your remark is too sweeping, and there is much that is
good
> in your 'Fables.'"
>
> "And to begin," continued La Fontaine, following up his idea, "I will go
and
> burn a hundred verses I have just made."
>
> "Where are your verses?"
>
> "In my head."
>
> "Well, if they are in your head you cannot burn them."
>
> "True," said La Fontaine; "but if I do not burn them-"
>
> "Well, what will happen if you do not burn them?"
>
> "They will remain in my mind, and I shall never forget them."
>
> "The devil!" cried Loret; "what a dangerous thing! One would go mad with
> it!"
>
> "The devil, devil, devil!" repeated La Fontaine; "what can I do?"
>
> "I have discovered the way," said Moliere, who had entered during the last
> words of the conversation.
>
> "What way?"
>
> "Write them first and burn them afterwards."
> - -------------------------------------------------------------
>
> And it was not only non-party people
> who wanted on this fact to base their
> tactics of setting up a non-revolutionary
> Social-Democracy, but also those
> "Bezzaglavtsi" Social-Democrat-like
> intellectuals who clustered around the
> Duma group like flies round a honey-pot.
>
> V. I. Lenin
> ON THE STRAIGHT ROAD
> Published in the newspaper
> Proletary, No. 26,
> March 19 (April 1), 1908
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 12:28:11 -0700
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: Re: [NPPF] Canto Three: The Catholic stuff.. hyewhades
>
> >>>HUE is the correct word to use to refer to just the pure
> spectrum colors. <<<
>
> You just can't trust that VN is willing to use words 'correctly,'
especially
> when the word with which we started was 'Hugh.' And your confusion about
> denotations and connotations is understandable, as even in ADA there arise
> the pertinent questions, "whose hue?" and "Hue or who?" (p.9, Vintage pb)
> John Entwhistle, VN, Abbot, and Costello are sharing a Turk's delight and
> laughing their asses off. And, if I may interject, there on the same p.9
of
> ADA we see reference to another smelly paste, as Van has lost his
enjoyment
> of the 'perfumed gum of Turkish paste' another name for Turkish Delight
(cf,
> PF poem, line 224). I find in scanning and tossing much of what has been
> written in the name of Nabokov criticism, that it suffers from the same
> annoyances as Pynchon criticism, namely that a lot of the text is simply
> ignored. This is a familiar tactic in my Christian fundamentalist roots,
and
> it is as offensive here as it was there. I do realize that to put together
a
> cohesive statement about these insane and brilliant authors requires some
> Occamic shaving, but this grooming exercise is taking place before a
mirror,
> and the critic is indeed the shadow and the pheasant. So, I have decided
to
> ignore the great body of Nabokov criticism and fuck around with the text
on
> my own, creating my own annoyances, reflections and footprints. Speaking
of
> which, during this week of Canto Three, I would be abdicating my role as a
> mandated reporter not to mention line 796, which brings us back to "whose
> hue?" There are many answers to this query. One can be found in the bio of
> one St. Adelaida (sic), namesake of Ada:
>
> St. Adelaide
>
> Born 931; died 16 December, 999, one of the conspicuous characters in the
> struggle of Otto the great to obtain the imperial crown from the Roman
> Pontiffs. She was the daughter of Rudolph II, King of Burgundy, who was at
> war with Hugh of Provence for the crown of Italy. The rivals concluded a
> peace in 933, by which it was stipulated that Adelaide should marry Hugh's
> son Lothaire. The marriage took place, however, only fourteen years later;
> Adelaide's mother meantime married Hugh.
>
> Oh my, the saint has married her step-brother. More sordid details of
> political intrigue and perhaps PF relevance can be found at
> http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01140c.htm
>
> And while we're enjoying a Frigg's Day stretch, it is also curious that
one
> of St. Adelaide's daughters (courtesy of her marriage to Otto following
the
> death of her step-brother) is none other than Maud of Quedlinburg:
> http://www.geocities.com/mizzmelisende/woman51.html
>
> It is also simply spine tingling that one of the patron saints of the
*death
> of children* is St. Maud.
> http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/saintm29.htm
>
> Now please excuse me, I must soak my sphincters.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 14:07:46 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [NPPF] Canto Three: The Catholic stuff.. hyewhades
>
> - --- s~Z <keithsz@concentric.net> wrote:
> > >>>HUE is the correct word to use to refer to just the pure spectrum
colors.
> <<<
> >
> > You just can't trust that VN is willing to use words 'correctly,'
especially
> when the word with which we started was 'Hugh.' And your confusion about
> denotations and connotations is understandable, as even in ADA there arise
the
> pertinent questions, "whose hue?" and "Hue or who?" (p.9, Vintage pb)
>
> Seems you are confusing my refusal to leave obvious error (hue = shade)
> standing with "my confusion." I seriously doubt VN would be that sloppy
with
> his word play. But you do seem to have found some interesting tidbits
below:
>
> DM
>
> > St. Adelaide
> >
> > Born 931; died 16 December, 999, one of the conspicuous characters in
the
> > struggle of Otto the great to obtain the imperial crown from the Roman
> > Pontiffs. She was the daughter of Rudolph II, King of Burgundy, who was
at
> > war with Hugh of Provence for the crown of Italy. The rivals concluded a
> > peace in 933, by which it was stipulated that Adelaide should marry
Hugh's
> > son Lothaire. The marriage took place, however, only fourteen years
later;
> > Adelaide's mother meantime married Hugh.
> >
> > Oh my, the saint has married her step-brother. More sordid details of
> > political intrigue and perhaps PF relevance can be found at
> > http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01140c.htm
> >
> > And while we're enjoying a Frigg's Day stretch, it is also curious that
one
> > of St. Adelaide's daughters (courtesy of her marriage to Otto following
the
> > death of her step-brother) is none other than Maud of Quedlinburg:
> > http://www.geocities.com/mizzmelisende/woman51.html
> >
> > It is also simply spine tingling that one of the patron saints of the
*death
> > of children* is St. Maud.
> > http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/saintm29.htm
> >
> > Now please excuse me, I must soak my sphincters.
> >
> >
> End of pynchon-l-digest V2 #3473
> ********************************
>
> To unsubscribe, send a message to waste@waste.org
> with "unsubscribe pynchon-l-digest" in the message body.