Subject
Fw: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3485 Pale Fire Canto 4
From
Date
Body
----- Original Message -----
From: "pynchon-l-digest" <owner-pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
To: <pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 7:30 PM
Subject: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3485
>
> pynchon-l-digest Tuesday, August 12 2003 Volume 02 : Number
3485
> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 16:36:34 -0400
> From: "cfalbert" <calbert@hslboxmaster.com>
> Subject: Fw: NPPF (Comentary) Stillicide
>
> > Isn't "kulle" a common scandinavian root for "hill" or "mound"?
> >
> > love,
> > cfa
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Arne HerlЬv Petersen" <herlahp@inet.uni2.dk>
> > To: <pynchon-l@waste.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 4:01 PM
> > Subject: Re: NPPF (Comentary) Stillicide
> >
> >
> > > s~Z wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "Hyde comes from the Anglo-Saxon HYD, which is Danish HIDE, "a
haven."
> > And
> > > > Jekyll comes from the Danish name JOKULLE, which means "an
> > cle." --V.
> > > > Nabokov (from lecture on Dr. Jekyll/Hyde)
> > >
> > >
> > > I wonder what kind of Danish Nabokov spoke. As a native Dane I am
> > > mystified. There is no Danish word HIDE, meaning "a haven".
> > > HID means hither. Or would it be better to choose English HIDE (as:
> > > skin), which is HUD in Danish?
> > > JOKULL (not Jokulle) is not Danish, but Icelandic, and does not mean
> > > "icicle" but "glacier".
> > >
> > > Arne Herlov Petersen
> > >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 13:49:32 -0700
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF (Commentary) Stillicide
>
> from Speak, Memory:
>
> "I discovered in nature the nonutilitarian delights that I sought in art.
> Both were a form of magic, both were a game of intricate enchantment and
> deception."
>
> (re. chess problems) "Deceit, to the point of diabolism, and originality,
> verging upon the grotesque, were my notions of strategy, I was always
ready
> to sacrifice purity of form to the exigencies of fantastical content,
> causing form to bulge and burst like a sponge-bag containing a small
furious
> devil."
> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
> - --
>
> from the BBC interview, in Strong Opinions:
>
> ". . . All art is deception and so is nature; all is deception in that
good
> cheat, from the insect that mimics a leaf to the popular enticements of
> procreation."
>
> "Do You know how Poetry started? I always think that it started when a
cave
> boy came running back to the cave, through the tall grass, shouting as he
> ran, 'Wolf, wolf,' and there was no wolf. His baboon-like parents, great
> sticklers for the truth, gave him a good hiding, no doubt, but poetry had
> been born -- the tall story had been born in the tall grass."
> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
> - --
>
> One person's sloppiness is Hugh Person's enchantment.
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 13:56:25 -0700
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Enchantment Required
>
> enchant:. To cast a spell over; bewitch. To attract and delight; entrance.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 16:54:17 -0400
> From: Terrance <lycidas2@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Canto 4 - Our Cream
>
> >
> > John Shade is a versipellis. The Cream is an ointment used in the
> > transformation from man to beast. It makes those hairs stand on end.
Nature
> > is glued to him.
>
> And now there rolls in, as on casters, a character,
> waxlike. lean-loined, with red nostrils soot-stufed,
> and I sit and cannot decide: is it human
> or nothing special--garrulous dust?
>
> Like a blustering beggar, the pest of the poorhouse,
> like an evil schoolmate, like the head spy
> (in that thick slurred murmur: "Say, what were you doing
> in such and such a place?"), like a dream,
>
> like a spy, like a hangman, like an evil old schoolmate
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 17:07:35 -0400
> From: Terrance <lycidas2@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Enchantment Required
>
> s~Z wrote:
> >
> > enchant:. To cast a spell over; bewitch. To attract and delight;
entrance.
>
> The sorcerer sang the spring to sleep
> In his shaggy arms, with weird refrain.
> Children remembered the dreams they had seen
> And quietly went to sleep again.
> Mother caressed and blessed her girl
> With a weary and trembling hand.
> The sunset shone red, and a tear rolled down
> And fell to the earth in a distant land.
> "Mother, beautiful Mother, you must not cry.
> We shall dream of the bird with the golden wing;
> all night she was singing to me from the mast,
> When the ship sailed away to look for the spring.
> It sailed and rolled, it sailed and rolled,
> And the sailor wept, and he would not end.
> Mother, he left his friend behind.
> Have you also a sorrowful friend?" --
>
> - --"Dearest girl, do not worry, go back to sleep,
> Tonight a different dream you will see.
> You will never dream the same again:
> The same dream ever comes to me."
>
> ------------------------------
> ------------------------------
> Date: 12 Aug 2003 17:36:37 -0400
> From: Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Canto 4 - Notes
>
> On Tue, 2003-08-12 at 17:10, David Morris wrote:
> >
> > --- Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net> wrote:
> > > Unless it can be demonstrated to me that, in the over all scheme of
the
> > novel, John Shade's poem is completely and totally irrelevant
> >
> > Egads. Anyone who might suggest such a thing is surely going to be
ridiculed
> > by Milly the Ridiculous.
> >
>
> Thought it sounded Nabokovian.
>
> Unless it can be proven to me--to me as I am now, today, with my heart
> and my beard, and my putrefaction --that in the infinite run it does not
> matter a jot that a North American girl-child named Dolores Haze had
> been deprived of . . . .
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 17:40:51 -0400
> From: Terrance <lycidas2@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Canto 4 - Notes
>
> Art is deception and so is nature.
>
> Paul Mackin wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, 2003-08-12 at 17:10, David Morris wrote:
> > >
> > > --- Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net> wrote:
> > > > Unless it can be demonstrated to me that, in the over all scheme of
the
> > > novel, John Shade's poem is completely and totally irrelevant
> > >
> > > Egads. Anyone who might suggest such a thing is surely going to be
ridiculed
> > > by Milly the Ridiculous.
> > >
> >
> > Thought it sounded Nabokovian.
> >
> > Unless it can be proven to me--to me as I am now, today, with my heart
> > and my beard, and my putrefaction --that in the infinite run it does not
> > matter a jot that a North American girl-child named Dolores Haze had
> > been deprived of . . . .
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 16:08:00 -0700 (PDT)
> From: pynchonoid <pynchonoid@yahoo.com>
> Subject: canto next
>
> fq:
> >I think it's supposed to be pretty awful.
>
>
> You think? How does that work? Your thinking, I mean,
> without letting anybody else know it's going on?
>
>
> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 18:06:07 -0700
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF (Commentary) Stillicide: Heraldry
>
> Gouttes, (fr. larmes), drops: i.e. a figure of an elongated pear-shape,
with
> the sides wavy. They are seldom, if ever, used singly, and generally the
> number is enumerated.
>
> When the goutte is reversed the term icicle is used by heraldic writers,
> that is, the charge is of the same shape, but the thicker portion is
> upwards, and the point downwards. Some heralds, however, call these
figures
> Clubs, others Gouttes reversed, and others Locks of hair. The bearing
seems
> to be confined to branches of one family.
>
> Azure, three icicles bendwise in bend sinister or--HARBOTTLE, Brecon.
> http://www002.upp.so-net.ne.jp/saitou/parker/jpglossg.htm#Gouttes
>
> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 18:18:11 -0700 (PDT)
> From: slothenvypride <slothenvypride7@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Canto 4 - Notes
>
> - --0-1663954607-1060737491=:32232
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Brilliant insights, as always, Ignatius.
>
> How's the hot dog business coming, by the way?
>
>
>
> David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Egads. Anyone who might suggest such a thing is surely going to be
ridiculed
> by Milly the Ridiculous.
>
> DM
>
>
>
>
> - ---------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 18:31:38 -0700
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: NPPF (Commentary) Heraldry
>
> http://www002.upp.so-net.ne.jp/saitou/parker/index.htm
>
> Crined, (fr. chevelИ): used with respect to the hair of a man's head, or
the
> mane of a horse when of another tincture.
>
> Or, (fr. from Latin aurum): the chief of the tinctures, i.e. gold. It is
> called Sol by those who blazon by the sun and planets, Topaz(or Carbuncle)
> by those who have fancifully taken the names of precious stones. Engravers
> represent it by an indefinite number of small points. The term Gold is not
> unfrequently used by heralds to avoid repetition, and the French word
Jaune,
> i.e. yellow, is met with in old heraldic poetry.
>
> Mermaid, (fr. sirИne): composed of the upper half of a woman(with
> dishevelled hair) joined to the lower half of a fish. It occurs but very
> seldom as a charge upon true English arms. The Siren seems to be only
> another name for the mermaid.
>
> Argent, a mermaid gules, crined or, holding a mirror in her right hand,
and
> a comb in her left, both gold--ELLIS, Lancashire.
> Vert, three mermaids two and one, each holding comb and mirror
> or--WOLLSTONECRAFT, Essex and London, granted 1765.
> Azure, a siren with comb and glass argent within a bordure indented
> gules--French family of POISSONNIERE.
>
> A mermaid is found on the Seal of Sir William Bruvire, or Bruere, temp.
> Richard I., and probably had its origin in the tales told by travellers
who
> joined in the crusades.
> Mermaids occur frequently as supporters; e.g. to the arms of the Burgh
> of MONTROSE, as also as crests, e.g. of Lord BYRON; and Sir John WALLOP,
> temp. Henry VIII., who bore a black mermaid with golden hair.
> The German family of DIE ERSTENBERGER bear as their crest a mermaid,
but
> with wings instead of arms.
>
> Deer: the term deer(fr. daim, old fr. deym) is seldom used is blazoning,
but
> it is convenient to employ it here as a general name under which to group
> several of the family of Cervido. First and most common is the stag
> itself(fr. cerf), but other names appear, frequently representing
varieties
> of stags, and in some cases evidently used for the sake of the name,
rather
> than for any difference which could be shewn in the drawing. They are
Hart,
> Buck, Roe, Roebuck, Doe, Fawn, Hind(fr. biche), Brocket. The Brocket is a
> young stag up to two years, or(according to some authors) to three years,
> old; it becomes a Buck in its sixth year. With them may be classed the
> Reindeer(fr. renchier), which heralds distinguish from the stag by double
> attires, one pair erect, the other pendent, as shewn in the diagram in the
> margin.
>
> Proper, (fr. au naturel): when a charge is borne of its natural colour it
is
> said to be proper; the word is sometimes used also as to shape, when there
> is a conventional or heraldic form of the charge, and when the natural
form
> has to be adopted. It is not good blazon to say a rose proper in regard to
> tincture, because some roses are red and others white, and the same remark
> will apply to any object whose colour varies at different times, or in
> different examples.
>
> Birds. The birds, as will be seen by the Table in the Appendix, are as
> varied in their names as the Beasts, though it is doubtful if the same
> variety could be detected in the actual emblazonment of the arms. As in
the
> case of the beasts, in the ancient rolls of arms comparatively few
varieties
> of Birds occur, and further the arms in which birds appear are not to be
> compared in number with those in which the beasts occur, amongst which the
> lion and leopard are so general. The little martlet is the most frequent,
> which is the Roll of Henry III., referred to under Beasts, occurs in eight
> coats of arms, the eagle in two, the popinjay in two, the raven, heron,
and
> cock respectively in one coat. And if we go further through the same rolls
> before referred to, viz. Edw. I., II., and III., though the number of arms
> bearing the above is considerably increased, we add only two additional
> names to the list, the falcon, and pinzon.
> But in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries, and more especially in
the
> seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, the list becomes swollen to over one
> hundred varieties at least in name. For it will be observed that in very
> many cases the name is adopted for the sake of the pun, and often a mere
> local name is given, such as the beckit for A'BECKET, and the like.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 18:46:04 -0700 (PDT)
> From: pynchonoid <pynchonoid@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF (Commentary) Heraldry
>
> I'm just loving the way the Nabokov project is
> contributing to a better understanding of Pynchon and
> the rest of that cross-fertilization razzmatazz that
> was used to justify this vanity project for a few
> P-listers.
>
> Bait and switch, that's what it looks like to me.
>
> Meanwhile, a Pynchon-reading friend has checked into
> the P-list three times now recently, and each time has
> chosen not to subscribe, puzzled by the huge chunks of
> stuff about Nabokov containing nothing about Pynchon.
>
> The Pale Fire discussion should move to another venue, imo.
>
> __________________________________
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 19:09:40 -0700
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: NPPF (Commentary) Slow-mo CloudWhy is the clou
>
> Why is the reflected cloud 'slightly slower?'
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 19:11:14 -0700
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF (Commentary) garden Aves
>
> garden Aves?
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 19:14:51 -0700 (PDT)
> From: slothenvypride <slothenvypride7@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF (Commentary) Heraldry
>
> - --0-564076034-1060740891=:19478
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Interestingly, I've seen more attempts on the part of VLVL readers to make
links to Nabokov than I have PFPF readers to make links to Pynchon.
>
> While back in early summer I thought this might be a worthwhile project to
read both authors simultaneously, it's pretty obvious that the PF crowd so
far cares little for Pynchon and the "sanctity" of the P-LIST.
>
> Maybe if Pale Fire addressed the theme of WORK?
>
> Hope springs eternal .......
>
>
> pynchonoid <pynchonoid@yahoo.com> wrote:
> The Pale Fire discussion should move to another venue, imo.
>
>
>
> - ---------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 19:26:08 -0700 (PDT)
> From: pynchonoid <pynchonoid@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF (Commentary) Heraldry
>
> The way the Pale Fire has rolled out is going
>
>
> - --- slothenvypride <slothenvypride7@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Interestingly, I've seen more attempts on the part
> > of VLVL readers to make links to Nabokov than I have
> > PFPF readers to make links to Pynchon.
> >
> > While back in early summer I thought this might be a
> > worthwhile project to read both authors
> > simultaneously, it's pretty obvious that the PF
> > crowd so far cares little for Pynchon and the
> > "sanctity" of the P-LIST.
> >
> > Maybe if Pale Fire addressed the theme of WORK?
> >
> > Hope springs eternal .......
>
> End of pynchon-l-digest V2 #3485
> ********************************
>
> To unsubscribe, send a message to waste@waste.org
> with "unsubscribe pynchon-l-digest" in the message body.
From: "pynchon-l-digest" <owner-pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
To: <pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 7:30 PM
Subject: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3485
>
> pynchon-l-digest Tuesday, August 12 2003 Volume 02 : Number
3485
> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 16:36:34 -0400
> From: "cfalbert" <calbert@hslboxmaster.com>
> Subject: Fw: NPPF (Comentary) Stillicide
>
> > Isn't "kulle" a common scandinavian root for "hill" or "mound"?
> >
> > love,
> > cfa
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Arne HerlЬv Petersen" <herlahp@inet.uni2.dk>
> > To: <pynchon-l@waste.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 4:01 PM
> > Subject: Re: NPPF (Comentary) Stillicide
> >
> >
> > > s~Z wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "Hyde comes from the Anglo-Saxon HYD, which is Danish HIDE, "a
haven."
> > And
> > > > Jekyll comes from the Danish name JOKULLE, which means "an
> > cle." --V.
> > > > Nabokov (from lecture on Dr. Jekyll/Hyde)
> > >
> > >
> > > I wonder what kind of Danish Nabokov spoke. As a native Dane I am
> > > mystified. There is no Danish word HIDE, meaning "a haven".
> > > HID means hither. Or would it be better to choose English HIDE (as:
> > > skin), which is HUD in Danish?
> > > JOKULL (not Jokulle) is not Danish, but Icelandic, and does not mean
> > > "icicle" but "glacier".
> > >
> > > Arne Herlov Petersen
> > >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 13:49:32 -0700
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF (Commentary) Stillicide
>
> from Speak, Memory:
>
> "I discovered in nature the nonutilitarian delights that I sought in art.
> Both were a form of magic, both were a game of intricate enchantment and
> deception."
>
> (re. chess problems) "Deceit, to the point of diabolism, and originality,
> verging upon the grotesque, were my notions of strategy, I was always
ready
> to sacrifice purity of form to the exigencies of fantastical content,
> causing form to bulge and burst like a sponge-bag containing a small
furious
> devil."
> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
> - --
>
> from the BBC interview, in Strong Opinions:
>
> ". . . All art is deception and so is nature; all is deception in that
good
> cheat, from the insect that mimics a leaf to the popular enticements of
> procreation."
>
> "Do You know how Poetry started? I always think that it started when a
cave
> boy came running back to the cave, through the tall grass, shouting as he
> ran, 'Wolf, wolf,' and there was no wolf. His baboon-like parents, great
> sticklers for the truth, gave him a good hiding, no doubt, but poetry had
> been born -- the tall story had been born in the tall grass."
> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
> - --
>
> One person's sloppiness is Hugh Person's enchantment.
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 13:56:25 -0700
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Enchantment Required
>
> enchant:. To cast a spell over; bewitch. To attract and delight; entrance.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 16:54:17 -0400
> From: Terrance <lycidas2@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Canto 4 - Our Cream
>
> >
> > John Shade is a versipellis. The Cream is an ointment used in the
> > transformation from man to beast. It makes those hairs stand on end.
Nature
> > is glued to him.
>
> And now there rolls in, as on casters, a character,
> waxlike. lean-loined, with red nostrils soot-stufed,
> and I sit and cannot decide: is it human
> or nothing special--garrulous dust?
>
> Like a blustering beggar, the pest of the poorhouse,
> like an evil schoolmate, like the head spy
> (in that thick slurred murmur: "Say, what were you doing
> in such and such a place?"), like a dream,
>
> like a spy, like a hangman, like an evil old schoolmate
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 17:07:35 -0400
> From: Terrance <lycidas2@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Enchantment Required
>
> s~Z wrote:
> >
> > enchant:. To cast a spell over; bewitch. To attract and delight;
entrance.
>
> The sorcerer sang the spring to sleep
> In his shaggy arms, with weird refrain.
> Children remembered the dreams they had seen
> And quietly went to sleep again.
> Mother caressed and blessed her girl
> With a weary and trembling hand.
> The sunset shone red, and a tear rolled down
> And fell to the earth in a distant land.
> "Mother, beautiful Mother, you must not cry.
> We shall dream of the bird with the golden wing;
> all night she was singing to me from the mast,
> When the ship sailed away to look for the spring.
> It sailed and rolled, it sailed and rolled,
> And the sailor wept, and he would not end.
> Mother, he left his friend behind.
> Have you also a sorrowful friend?" --
>
> - --"Dearest girl, do not worry, go back to sleep,
> Tonight a different dream you will see.
> You will never dream the same again:
> The same dream ever comes to me."
>
> ------------------------------
> ------------------------------
> Date: 12 Aug 2003 17:36:37 -0400
> From: Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Canto 4 - Notes
>
> On Tue, 2003-08-12 at 17:10, David Morris wrote:
> >
> > --- Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net> wrote:
> > > Unless it can be demonstrated to me that, in the over all scheme of
the
> > novel, John Shade's poem is completely and totally irrelevant
> >
> > Egads. Anyone who might suggest such a thing is surely going to be
ridiculed
> > by Milly the Ridiculous.
> >
>
> Thought it sounded Nabokovian.
>
> Unless it can be proven to me--to me as I am now, today, with my heart
> and my beard, and my putrefaction --that in the infinite run it does not
> matter a jot that a North American girl-child named Dolores Haze had
> been deprived of . . . .
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 17:40:51 -0400
> From: Terrance <lycidas2@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Canto 4 - Notes
>
> Art is deception and so is nature.
>
> Paul Mackin wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, 2003-08-12 at 17:10, David Morris wrote:
> > >
> > > --- Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net> wrote:
> > > > Unless it can be demonstrated to me that, in the over all scheme of
the
> > > novel, John Shade's poem is completely and totally irrelevant
> > >
> > > Egads. Anyone who might suggest such a thing is surely going to be
ridiculed
> > > by Milly the Ridiculous.
> > >
> >
> > Thought it sounded Nabokovian.
> >
> > Unless it can be proven to me--to me as I am now, today, with my heart
> > and my beard, and my putrefaction --that in the infinite run it does not
> > matter a jot that a North American girl-child named Dolores Haze had
> > been deprived of . . . .
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 16:08:00 -0700 (PDT)
> From: pynchonoid <pynchonoid@yahoo.com>
> Subject: canto next
>
> fq:
> >I think it's supposed to be pretty awful.
>
>
> You think? How does that work? Your thinking, I mean,
> without letting anybody else know it's going on?
>
>
> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 18:06:07 -0700
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF (Commentary) Stillicide: Heraldry
>
> Gouttes, (fr. larmes), drops: i.e. a figure of an elongated pear-shape,
with
> the sides wavy. They are seldom, if ever, used singly, and generally the
> number is enumerated.
>
> When the goutte is reversed the term icicle is used by heraldic writers,
> that is, the charge is of the same shape, but the thicker portion is
> upwards, and the point downwards. Some heralds, however, call these
figures
> Clubs, others Gouttes reversed, and others Locks of hair. The bearing
seems
> to be confined to branches of one family.
>
> Azure, three icicles bendwise in bend sinister or--HARBOTTLE, Brecon.
> http://www002.upp.so-net.ne.jp/saitou/parker/jpglossg.htm#Gouttes
>
> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 18:18:11 -0700 (PDT)
> From: slothenvypride <slothenvypride7@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Canto 4 - Notes
>
> - --0-1663954607-1060737491=:32232
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Brilliant insights, as always, Ignatius.
>
> How's the hot dog business coming, by the way?
>
>
>
> David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Egads. Anyone who might suggest such a thing is surely going to be
ridiculed
> by Milly the Ridiculous.
>
> DM
>
>
>
>
> - ---------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 18:31:38 -0700
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: NPPF (Commentary) Heraldry
>
> http://www002.upp.so-net.ne.jp/saitou/parker/index.htm
>
> Crined, (fr. chevelИ): used with respect to the hair of a man's head, or
the
> mane of a horse when of another tincture.
>
> Or, (fr. from Latin aurum): the chief of the tinctures, i.e. gold. It is
> called Sol by those who blazon by the sun and planets, Topaz(or Carbuncle)
> by those who have fancifully taken the names of precious stones. Engravers
> represent it by an indefinite number of small points. The term Gold is not
> unfrequently used by heralds to avoid repetition, and the French word
Jaune,
> i.e. yellow, is met with in old heraldic poetry.
>
> Mermaid, (fr. sirИne): composed of the upper half of a woman(with
> dishevelled hair) joined to the lower half of a fish. It occurs but very
> seldom as a charge upon true English arms. The Siren seems to be only
> another name for the mermaid.
>
> Argent, a mermaid gules, crined or, holding a mirror in her right hand,
and
> a comb in her left, both gold--ELLIS, Lancashire.
> Vert, three mermaids two and one, each holding comb and mirror
> or--WOLLSTONECRAFT, Essex and London, granted 1765.
> Azure, a siren with comb and glass argent within a bordure indented
> gules--French family of POISSONNIERE.
>
> A mermaid is found on the Seal of Sir William Bruvire, or Bruere, temp.
> Richard I., and probably had its origin in the tales told by travellers
who
> joined in the crusades.
> Mermaids occur frequently as supporters; e.g. to the arms of the Burgh
> of MONTROSE, as also as crests, e.g. of Lord BYRON; and Sir John WALLOP,
> temp. Henry VIII., who bore a black mermaid with golden hair.
> The German family of DIE ERSTENBERGER bear as their crest a mermaid,
but
> with wings instead of arms.
>
> Deer: the term deer(fr. daim, old fr. deym) is seldom used is blazoning,
but
> it is convenient to employ it here as a general name under which to group
> several of the family of Cervido. First and most common is the stag
> itself(fr. cerf), but other names appear, frequently representing
varieties
> of stags, and in some cases evidently used for the sake of the name,
rather
> than for any difference which could be shewn in the drawing. They are
Hart,
> Buck, Roe, Roebuck, Doe, Fawn, Hind(fr. biche), Brocket. The Brocket is a
> young stag up to two years, or(according to some authors) to three years,
> old; it becomes a Buck in its sixth year. With them may be classed the
> Reindeer(fr. renchier), which heralds distinguish from the stag by double
> attires, one pair erect, the other pendent, as shewn in the diagram in the
> margin.
>
> Proper, (fr. au naturel): when a charge is borne of its natural colour it
is
> said to be proper; the word is sometimes used also as to shape, when there
> is a conventional or heraldic form of the charge, and when the natural
form
> has to be adopted. It is not good blazon to say a rose proper in regard to
> tincture, because some roses are red and others white, and the same remark
> will apply to any object whose colour varies at different times, or in
> different examples.
>
> Birds. The birds, as will be seen by the Table in the Appendix, are as
> varied in their names as the Beasts, though it is doubtful if the same
> variety could be detected in the actual emblazonment of the arms. As in
the
> case of the beasts, in the ancient rolls of arms comparatively few
varieties
> of Birds occur, and further the arms in which birds appear are not to be
> compared in number with those in which the beasts occur, amongst which the
> lion and leopard are so general. The little martlet is the most frequent,
> which is the Roll of Henry III., referred to under Beasts, occurs in eight
> coats of arms, the eagle in two, the popinjay in two, the raven, heron,
and
> cock respectively in one coat. And if we go further through the same rolls
> before referred to, viz. Edw. I., II., and III., though the number of arms
> bearing the above is considerably increased, we add only two additional
> names to the list, the falcon, and pinzon.
> But in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries, and more especially in
the
> seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, the list becomes swollen to over one
> hundred varieties at least in name. For it will be observed that in very
> many cases the name is adopted for the sake of the pun, and often a mere
> local name is given, such as the beckit for A'BECKET, and the like.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 18:46:04 -0700 (PDT)
> From: pynchonoid <pynchonoid@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF (Commentary) Heraldry
>
> I'm just loving the way the Nabokov project is
> contributing to a better understanding of Pynchon and
> the rest of that cross-fertilization razzmatazz that
> was used to justify this vanity project for a few
> P-listers.
>
> Bait and switch, that's what it looks like to me.
>
> Meanwhile, a Pynchon-reading friend has checked into
> the P-list three times now recently, and each time has
> chosen not to subscribe, puzzled by the huge chunks of
> stuff about Nabokov containing nothing about Pynchon.
>
> The Pale Fire discussion should move to another venue, imo.
>
> __________________________________
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 19:09:40 -0700
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: NPPF (Commentary) Slow-mo CloudWhy is the clou
>
> Why is the reflected cloud 'slightly slower?'
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 19:11:14 -0700
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF (Commentary) garden Aves
>
> garden Aves?
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 19:14:51 -0700 (PDT)
> From: slothenvypride <slothenvypride7@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF (Commentary) Heraldry
>
> - --0-564076034-1060740891=:19478
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Interestingly, I've seen more attempts on the part of VLVL readers to make
links to Nabokov than I have PFPF readers to make links to Pynchon.
>
> While back in early summer I thought this might be a worthwhile project to
read both authors simultaneously, it's pretty obvious that the PF crowd so
far cares little for Pynchon and the "sanctity" of the P-LIST.
>
> Maybe if Pale Fire addressed the theme of WORK?
>
> Hope springs eternal .......
>
>
> pynchonoid <pynchonoid@yahoo.com> wrote:
> The Pale Fire discussion should move to another venue, imo.
>
>
>
> - ---------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 19:26:08 -0700 (PDT)
> From: pynchonoid <pynchonoid@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF (Commentary) Heraldry
>
> The way the Pale Fire has rolled out is going
>
>
> - --- slothenvypride <slothenvypride7@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Interestingly, I've seen more attempts on the part
> > of VLVL readers to make links to Nabokov than I have
> > PFPF readers to make links to Pynchon.
> >
> > While back in early summer I thought this might be a
> > worthwhile project to read both authors
> > simultaneously, it's pretty obvious that the PF
> > crowd so far cares little for Pynchon and the
> > "sanctity" of the P-LIST.
> >
> > Maybe if Pale Fire addressed the theme of WORK?
> >
> > Hope springs eternal .......
>
> End of pynchon-l-digest V2 #3485
> ********************************
>
> To unsubscribe, send a message to waste@waste.org
> with "unsubscribe pynchon-l-digest" in the message body.