Subject
Re: Fwd: Out with the Closet
From
Date
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And according to the OED you do not even need to fanatasize about
molesting children, simply be sexually attracted to them to fit the
definition of pedophile. Off with its head!
--On Tuesday, September 13, 2005 9:40 PM -0700 "Donald B. Johnson"
<chtodel@gss.ucsb.edu> wrote:
> EDNOTE. A worthwhile thought on recent loose use of a murky term.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ----- Forwarded message from bunsan@direcway.com -----
> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 22:58:52 -0400
> From: Alexander Drescher <bunsan@direcway.com>
> Reply-To: Alexander Drescher <bunsan@direcway.com>
> Subject: Out with the Closet
> ---------------- Message requiring your approval (140 lines)
> ------------------
> Dear List-
>
> Before settling whether or not anyone was/is a "closet
> pedophile" it might be useful to define this term. Perhaps I can
> be of help:
>
> 1. A person who
> molests children in a wardrobe?
> 2. A person who molests children but does not make this fact
> public?
> 3. A person who
> does not molest children but might like to?
> 4. A person who is not aware of harboring a wish to molest
> children?
>
> As Options 1 and 2 specify types of pedophiles [as would
> "left-handed pedophile", "frightened pedophile", "musical
> pedophile"], they seem beside the point in this discussion.
> Option 3 requires that thought or wish be equivalent to
> action. Although this belief has a long and honorable history,
> both religious and secular, those of us who - like the White
> Queen - can believe as many as six impossible things before
> breakfast are in deep trouble unless we can program our daily
> half-dozen fantasies into very narrow channels. [After reading
> today's newspaper, I am a "closet assassin". As yet, this seems
> safe to admit].
> Option 4 by definition can not be an identity, even
> though a wonderful epithet to throw at someone we neither like
> nor understand. Yes, there is another; my favorite.
>
> 5. Delete the
> adjective.
>
> -Sandy Drescher
>
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, September 13, 2005, at 08:48 PM, Donald B. Johnson
> wrote:
>
>> Dear List,
>>
>> I thought my abstract made it clear that Centerwall wanted to
>> prove that VN
>> was a "closet pedophile". I take the trouble (a final one) of
>> quoting relevant sentences from the first page of his article
>> which are unambiguous:
>>
>> "...an opportune moment to consider that most heretical of
>> questions, was
>> Vladimir Nabokov a closet pedophile?...Popular dogma
>> notwithstanding, there
>> are adequate grounds for concluding that he was, as this essay
>> will demonstrate. More than mere intrusion into an author's
>> private sexuality, at
>> stake is the very meaning of Lolita. For however vehemently my
>> thesis may be
>> disputed, there can be no disputing the question's pivotal
>> importance to any
>> comprehensive understanding of Nabokov's masterpiece. If Nabokov
>> was truly a
>> closet pedophile, interpretations of Lolita that are predicated
>> upon his
>> presumed sexual orthodoxy are necessarily incorrect.
>> I intrude upon Nabokov's privacy, but no offense need be
>> taken...The late
>> Mr. Nabokov's contact toward children was, and remains,
>> unimpeachable...
>> A final prefatory note: I take it as self-evident that Nabokov
>> could easily
>> create a convincing portrait of a pedophile even if he were not
>> one himself.
>> Therefore, I make no attempt to infer his pedophilia in so banal
>> a manner.
>> The real evidence lies elsewhere." p. 468
>>
>> A. Bouazza.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Vladimir Nabokov Forum
>> [mailto:NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU]On Behalf Of Donald B. Johnson
>> Sent: 13 September 2005 20:24
>> To: NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU
>> Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Centerwall etc...
>>
>>
>> Carolyn,
>>
>> I shall look for the article and see if I can post it to the
>> list. While we don't know if Centerwall has called Nabokov a
>> pedophile, we do know that Jo Morgan has. Still, of course, that
>> does not make her claim that Nabokov had been molested as a
>> child untrue. I agree that Nabokov does have a high degree of
>> sensitivity to the pain of children subjected to abuse by
>> adults, but couching the argument in terms of "closet child
>> advocate" (this quote may be inaccurate it's what I remember of
>> a now deleted JM message) again belies an agenda that undermines
>> the credibility of the point. (Which of course doesn't mean it's
>> still not true:>))
>>
>> ---Suellen
>>
>> --On Tuesday, September 13, 2005 9:14 AM -0700 "Donald B.
>> Johnson" <chtodel@gss.ucsb.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> ----- Forwarded message from chaiselongue@earthlink.net -----
>>> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:01:45 -0800
>>> From: Carolyn Kunin <chaiselongue@earthlink.net>
>>> Reply-To: Carolyn Kunin <chaiselongue@earthlink.net>
>>> Subject: Re: Centerwall etc...
>>> To: Vladimir Nabokov Forum
>>>
>>>> Personally I find it incendiary and sensationalistic and
>>>> therefore dishonest, to label someone a pedophile without
>>>> voluminous evidence and to my mind, activity, even if you mean
>>>> it in the strictest sense of the word (OED definition
>>>> follows)and even if you could prove that that person HAD been
>>>> molested as a child by an adult
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Suellen Stringer-Hye,
>>>
>>> I agree with you. If Centerwall has labeled VN himself as a
>>> pedophile, he had neither right nor reason to do so. The only
>>> part of the theory that interests me is the possibility that VN
>>> had been himself molested as a child. That unfortunately makes
>>> devastating sense which I should hasten to add, doesn't make it
>>> true.
>>>
>>> Carolyn
>>>
>>> ----- End forwarded message -----
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------
>> Suellen Stringer-Hye
>> Vanderbilt University
>> Website:http://staffweb.library.vanderbilt.edu/libtech/stringer/
>> Email: suellen.stringer-hye@Vanderbilt.Edu
>>
>> ----- End forwarded message -----
>>
>> ----- End forwarded message -----
>>
>
> ----- End forwarded message -----
---------------------------------------
Suellen Stringer-Hye
Vanderbilt University
Website:http://staffweb.library.vanderbilt.edu/libtech/stringer/
Email: suellen.stringer-hye@Vanderbilt.Edu
----- End forwarded message -----
molesting children, simply be sexually attracted to them to fit the
definition of pedophile. Off with its head!
--On Tuesday, September 13, 2005 9:40 PM -0700 "Donald B. Johnson"
<chtodel@gss.ucsb.edu> wrote:
> EDNOTE. A worthwhile thought on recent loose use of a murky term.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ----- Forwarded message from bunsan@direcway.com -----
> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 22:58:52 -0400
> From: Alexander Drescher <bunsan@direcway.com>
> Reply-To: Alexander Drescher <bunsan@direcway.com>
> Subject: Out with the Closet
> ---------------- Message requiring your approval (140 lines)
> ------------------
> Dear List-
>
> Before settling whether or not anyone was/is a "closet
> pedophile" it might be useful to define this term. Perhaps I can
> be of help:
>
> 1. A person who
> molests children in a wardrobe?
> 2. A person who molests children but does not make this fact
> public?
> 3. A person who
> does not molest children but might like to?
> 4. A person who is not aware of harboring a wish to molest
> children?
>
> As Options 1 and 2 specify types of pedophiles [as would
> "left-handed pedophile", "frightened pedophile", "musical
> pedophile"], they seem beside the point in this discussion.
> Option 3 requires that thought or wish be equivalent to
> action. Although this belief has a long and honorable history,
> both religious and secular, those of us who - like the White
> Queen - can believe as many as six impossible things before
> breakfast are in deep trouble unless we can program our daily
> half-dozen fantasies into very narrow channels. [After reading
> today's newspaper, I am a "closet assassin". As yet, this seems
> safe to admit].
> Option 4 by definition can not be an identity, even
> though a wonderful epithet to throw at someone we neither like
> nor understand. Yes, there is another; my favorite.
>
> 5. Delete the
> adjective.
>
> -Sandy Drescher
>
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, September 13, 2005, at 08:48 PM, Donald B. Johnson
> wrote:
>
>> Dear List,
>>
>> I thought my abstract made it clear that Centerwall wanted to
>> prove that VN
>> was a "closet pedophile". I take the trouble (a final one) of
>> quoting relevant sentences from the first page of his article
>> which are unambiguous:
>>
>> "...an opportune moment to consider that most heretical of
>> questions, was
>> Vladimir Nabokov a closet pedophile?...Popular dogma
>> notwithstanding, there
>> are adequate grounds for concluding that he was, as this essay
>> will demonstrate. More than mere intrusion into an author's
>> private sexuality, at
>> stake is the very meaning of Lolita. For however vehemently my
>> thesis may be
>> disputed, there can be no disputing the question's pivotal
>> importance to any
>> comprehensive understanding of Nabokov's masterpiece. If Nabokov
>> was truly a
>> closet pedophile, interpretations of Lolita that are predicated
>> upon his
>> presumed sexual orthodoxy are necessarily incorrect.
>> I intrude upon Nabokov's privacy, but no offense need be
>> taken...The late
>> Mr. Nabokov's contact toward children was, and remains,
>> unimpeachable...
>> A final prefatory note: I take it as self-evident that Nabokov
>> could easily
>> create a convincing portrait of a pedophile even if he were not
>> one himself.
>> Therefore, I make no attempt to infer his pedophilia in so banal
>> a manner.
>> The real evidence lies elsewhere." p. 468
>>
>> A. Bouazza.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Vladimir Nabokov Forum
>> [mailto:NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU]On Behalf Of Donald B. Johnson
>> Sent: 13 September 2005 20:24
>> To: NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU
>> Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Centerwall etc...
>>
>>
>> Carolyn,
>>
>> I shall look for the article and see if I can post it to the
>> list. While we don't know if Centerwall has called Nabokov a
>> pedophile, we do know that Jo Morgan has. Still, of course, that
>> does not make her claim that Nabokov had been molested as a
>> child untrue. I agree that Nabokov does have a high degree of
>> sensitivity to the pain of children subjected to abuse by
>> adults, but couching the argument in terms of "closet child
>> advocate" (this quote may be inaccurate it's what I remember of
>> a now deleted JM message) again belies an agenda that undermines
>> the credibility of the point. (Which of course doesn't mean it's
>> still not true:>))
>>
>> ---Suellen
>>
>> --On Tuesday, September 13, 2005 9:14 AM -0700 "Donald B.
>> Johnson" <chtodel@gss.ucsb.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> ----- Forwarded message from chaiselongue@earthlink.net -----
>>> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:01:45 -0800
>>> From: Carolyn Kunin <chaiselongue@earthlink.net>
>>> Reply-To: Carolyn Kunin <chaiselongue@earthlink.net>
>>> Subject: Re: Centerwall etc...
>>> To: Vladimir Nabokov Forum
>>>
>>>> Personally I find it incendiary and sensationalistic and
>>>> therefore dishonest, to label someone a pedophile without
>>>> voluminous evidence and to my mind, activity, even if you mean
>>>> it in the strictest sense of the word (OED definition
>>>> follows)and even if you could prove that that person HAD been
>>>> molested as a child by an adult
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Suellen Stringer-Hye,
>>>
>>> I agree with you. If Centerwall has labeled VN himself as a
>>> pedophile, he had neither right nor reason to do so. The only
>>> part of the theory that interests me is the possibility that VN
>>> had been himself molested as a child. That unfortunately makes
>>> devastating sense which I should hasten to add, doesn't make it
>>> true.
>>>
>>> Carolyn
>>>
>>> ----- End forwarded message -----
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------
>> Suellen Stringer-Hye
>> Vanderbilt University
>> Website:http://staffweb.library.vanderbilt.edu/libtech/stringer/
>> Email: suellen.stringer-hye@Vanderbilt.Edu
>>
>> ----- End forwarded message -----
>>
>> ----- End forwarded message -----
>>
>
> ----- End forwarded message -----
---------------------------------------
Suellen Stringer-Hye
Vanderbilt University
Website:http://staffweb.library.vanderbilt.edu/libtech/stringer/
Email: suellen.stringer-hye@Vanderbilt.Edu
----- End forwarded message -----