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Re: odd moment in Lolita? (fwd)
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------------------ I'm thankful for all the comments that my own, perhaps
ill-judged/expressed thought elicited, but perhaps that thought was
itself too 'throwaway', so I'll have another go:
What I was really trying to get across is that it seems to me that
Lolita is referring to the rape in a playful or teasing way, which comes
across as unrealistic to me, and indeed shocking, even though, as
another lister has commented, it isn't the first such reference. But of
course this is all filtered through the unreliable HH. Lolita may well
be more sophisticated psychologically than HH is willing to admit,
because he belittles her so much at every opportunty, but, on the other
hand, we never get inside her head (we can't, of course, because of the
way the narrative is structured). So how much of this is really Lolita
saying it and saying it in this way (I guess this is my question)? I
hope this goes some way to explaining why the (to me) casual reference to
rape caught my attention so much, given that it occurs in a novel which
is by its very subject matter jam-packed with still rather shocking
(because so bold and unfettered) statements and desires. Having said all
that, _Lolita_ is in many ways pretty non-explicit in its descriptions
(please allow for the fact that my re-reading has only taken me just
over two thirds of the way), and I may as well add that not the least of
Nabokov's skill lies in finding so many ways to express HH's overriding
aim and desire in so many different ways in almost every paragraph.
Brian Howell
--------------------------
ED. I'm inclined to agree with Brian's "teasing/mocking" take. Readers are
inclined to be "over protective" of LO. In part she may regard the night
with HUM as a game much like her sport with Charly at Camp Climax.
On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 21:54:05 -0700, "D. Barton Johnson"
<chtodel@gss.ucsb.edu> said:
> ---------- Forwarded Message ----------
> Date: Friday, July 09, 2004 12:10 AM -0400
> From: STADLEN@aol.com Anthony Stadlen
> To: NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU
> Subject: Re: odd moment in Lolita? (fwd) (fwd) (fwd)
>
> In a message dated 08/07/2004 19:47:09 GMT Standard Time,
> chtodel@gss.ucsb.edu writes:
>
>
> Of course Lo asks the question to learn the name of hotel, for the
> reasons
> Ms.
> Krimmel states. But that wasn't the subject of Brian's message. He was
> remarking on the "oddity" of Lo refering to the "Enchanted Hunters" as
> the hotel "where you raped me," because he thought such a statement
> suggested a "strangely mature psychology."
>
>
>
> But that thought is what is odd. As has been pointed out already, she is
> speaking no more than the moral and legal truth, surely heightened for
> her
> by her knowledge that her stepfather has raped her while knowing, but not
> telling her, that her mother was dead.
>
> Anthony Stadlen
>
> ---------- End Forwarded Message ----------
>
>
>
> D. Barton Johnson
> NABOKV-L
---------- End Forwarded Message ----------
D. Barton Johnson
NABOKV-L
ill-judged/expressed thought elicited, but perhaps that thought was
itself too 'throwaway', so I'll have another go:
What I was really trying to get across is that it seems to me that
Lolita is referring to the rape in a playful or teasing way, which comes
across as unrealistic to me, and indeed shocking, even though, as
another lister has commented, it isn't the first such reference. But of
course this is all filtered through the unreliable HH. Lolita may well
be more sophisticated psychologically than HH is willing to admit,
because he belittles her so much at every opportunty, but, on the other
hand, we never get inside her head (we can't, of course, because of the
way the narrative is structured). So how much of this is really Lolita
saying it and saying it in this way (I guess this is my question)? I
hope this goes some way to explaining why the (to me) casual reference to
rape caught my attention so much, given that it occurs in a novel which
is by its very subject matter jam-packed with still rather shocking
(because so bold and unfettered) statements and desires. Having said all
that, _Lolita_ is in many ways pretty non-explicit in its descriptions
(please allow for the fact that my re-reading has only taken me just
over two thirds of the way), and I may as well add that not the least of
Nabokov's skill lies in finding so many ways to express HH's overriding
aim and desire in so many different ways in almost every paragraph.
Brian Howell
--------------------------
ED. I'm inclined to agree with Brian's "teasing/mocking" take. Readers are
inclined to be "over protective" of LO. In part she may regard the night
with HUM as a game much like her sport with Charly at Camp Climax.
On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 21:54:05 -0700, "D. Barton Johnson"
<chtodel@gss.ucsb.edu> said:
> ---------- Forwarded Message ----------
> Date: Friday, July 09, 2004 12:10 AM -0400
> From: STADLEN@aol.com Anthony Stadlen
> To: NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU
> Subject: Re: odd moment in Lolita? (fwd) (fwd) (fwd)
>
> In a message dated 08/07/2004 19:47:09 GMT Standard Time,
> chtodel@gss.ucsb.edu writes:
>
>
> Of course Lo asks the question to learn the name of hotel, for the
> reasons
> Ms.
> Krimmel states. But that wasn't the subject of Brian's message. He was
> remarking on the "oddity" of Lo refering to the "Enchanted Hunters" as
> the hotel "where you raped me," because he thought such a statement
> suggested a "strangely mature psychology."
>
>
>
> But that thought is what is odd. As has been pointed out already, she is
> speaking no more than the moral and legal truth, surely heightened for
> her
> by her knowledge that her stepfather has raped her while knowing, but not
> telling her, that her mother was dead.
>
> Anthony Stadlen
>
> ---------- End Forwarded Message ----------
>
>
>
> D. Barton Johnson
> NABOKV-L
---------- End Forwarded Message ----------
D. Barton Johnson
NABOKV-L