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Fw: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3379 re Pale Fire
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----- Original Message -----
From: "pynchon-l-digest" <owner-pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
To: <pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 12:00 AM
Subject: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3379
>
> pynchon-l-digest Tuesday, July 8 2003 Volume 02 : Number
3379
>
>
>
> Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire & House of Leaves
> RE: NPPF: anagrams
> Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
> Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Dedication and Epigraph
> NPPF
> Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
> Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Dedication and Epigraph
> Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
> Re: NPPF
> RE: NPPF
> Re: NPPF
> re: NPPF - preliminary
> RE: NPPF - Preliminary - Title
> re: NPPF - preliminary
> Re: 1984 Foreword: Internet and social control
> Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
> Re: NPPF - preliminary
> re: NPPF - Preliminary - Title
> Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
> re: NPPF- Preliminary- Title
> Re: 1984 Foreword: Internet and social control
> Urgent call for prayer
> Fw: Wikipedia
> Re: NPPF - preliminary
> The Happy Couple
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:31:55 -0400
> From: "cfalbert" <calbert@hslboxmaster.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
>
> Be careful here........one of the sillier tacks taken in Nabokovian
analysis
> is one where critics ask "Did N. intend for Shade to be a "worse" poet
than
> the author?" My question is, could N. make Shade a better poet than
himself?
>
> It may be that PF is a "great poem" in parts, and less so in others.....It
> is hard to argue that those first few lines aren't a remarkable
> achievement........not only is the metaphor singularly fecund (PI), but it
> scans exquisitely......(Boyd, at one point, suggests that these lines
> constitute a substantial contribution to the art)
>
> It does appear at times to respectfully "mimic" the English Romanticists,
> and at others, almost lampoon Frost........
>
> keep those pheasant tracks in mind at all times.....
>
> love,
> cfa
>
>
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> To: <pynchon-l@waste.org>
> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 12:37 PM
> Subject: RE: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
>
>
> > So lyrically I guess it's a strong poem then? But is "Pale Fire" a
*good*
> > poem? Does it really merit a book-length commentary and index? Is John
> > Shade a *good* poet, or is he, as Kernan writes, "the belated writer who
> has
> > no authentic voice of his own but merely echoes earlier stronger
writers"?
> > (Alvin B. Kernan, "Reading Zemblan: The Audience Disappears in _Pale
> > Fire_").
> >
> > akaJasperFidget
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Elainemmbell@aol.com [mailto:Elainemmbell@aol.com]
> > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 11:03 AM
> > > To: jasper@hatguild.org; pynchon-l@waste.org
> > > Subject: Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
> > >
> > > In a message dated 7/7/2003 9:47:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> > > jasper@hatguild.org writes:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > (someone with better poetry voodoo might explain their purpose,
> > > although I
> > > recall being told it has to do with attempting to guide or ease the
> > > reader's
> > > eye through transitions)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Punctuation and indentation decisions in poetry do function as Jasper
> > > suggests but also provide the musical timing and cadence of the work.
> For
> > > instance, in Canto One, lines 22-24:
> > >
> > > "Reading from left to right in winter's code:
> > > A dot, an arrow pointing back; repeat:
> > > Dot, arrow pointing back...A pheasant's feet!"
> > >
> > > You can "hear" the stop at :, the quarter-stop at , and the half-stop
> at:
> > > followed by the rhythmic stop at the second: then the actual repeat
> picks
> > > up the implied rhythm only to trip into the kind of trill implied by
the
> > > ellipsis rounding up to the double stop at the final !
> > >
> > > Whereas in lines 245-246 of Canto Two use the indentation rhythm to
make
> > > the line "Lafontaine was wrong:" the equivalent in beats as the
> apparently
> > > longer next line:
> > > "Dead is the mandible, alive the song." The combination of a long
> opening
> > > indent plus a colon stop stretches the line with fewer syllables into
> the
> > > same time signature as the longer line.
> > >
> > > In my conjure woman's humble interpretation, that is.
> > > Elaine M.M. Bell, Writer
> > > (860) 523-9225
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 11:09:00 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Dedication and Epigraph
>
> - --- Jasper Fidget <jasper@hatguild.org> wrote:
> > for a discussion of the Shadean reading as well as other theories see
Boyd's
> article here:
> >
> > http://www.libraries.psu.edu/iasweb/nabokov/boydonmc.htm
> >
> > -- would it be useful post a brief list of the existing authorship
> theories...?).
>
> I guess they can't be avoided. But it seems premature. Obviously some
here
> are VERY well versed with the theories and references in PF, so It's
> unavoidable that these theories come forward. It just seems that we'd be
> starting at the end to list/explain them all now. I'd say it might be
better
> to point out the possibilities for interpreting specific portions of the
text
> as we get into them along the way. But I'm the novice at this text...
>
> Your great job with these "preliminaries" is a bit intimidating, but very
> illuminating.
>
> David Morris
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: 07 Jul 2003 14:20:56 -0400
> From: Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net>
> Subject: NPPF
>
> D. Barton Johnson, the moderator of the n-list is fowarding our nppf
> posts to the n-list.
>
> P.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 11:31:40 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Malignd <malignd@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
>
> <<one of the sillier tacks taken in Nabokovian
> analysis is one where critics ask "Did N. intend for
> Shade to be a "worse" poet than the author. >>
>
> I'm not so sure this is a silly tack. Kinbote's and
> Shades relative levels of writerly talent is an
> interesting and unavoidable topic and one VN certainly
> had control over.
>
> <<My question is, could N. make Shade a better poet
> than
> himself? ...>>>
>
> Could N make a poem better than N could make a poem?
>
> Well, if anyone could ...
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: 07 Jul 2003 14:51:53 -0400
> From: Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Dedication and Epigraph
>
> On Mon, 2003-07-07 at 14:09, David Morris wrote:
> >
> > --- Jasper Fidget <jasper@hatguild.org> wrote:
> > > for a discussion of the Shadean reading as well as other theories see
Boyd's
> > article here:
> > >
> > > http://www.libraries.psu.edu/iasweb/nabokov/boydonmc.htm
> > >
> > > -- would it be useful post a brief list of the existing authorship
> > theories...?).
> >
> > I guess they can't be avoided. But it seems premature. Obviously some
here
> > are VERY well versed with the theories and references in PF, so It's
> > unavoidable that these theories come forward. It just seems that we'd
be
> > starting at the end to list/explain them all now. I'd say it might be
better
> > to point out the possibilities for interpreting specific portions of the
text
> > as we get into them along the way.
>
>
> What we need to strive for is a grand unifying theory, a theory of
> theories. (if there isn't a satisfactory one already) This is being
> presumptuous I realize but aim for the stars . . .
>
> Brian Boyd in his latest (I think) imagines and constructs three stages
> of understanding: the reading; the rereading; and the re-rereading.
>
> Sounds familiar?--as from last week's discussion.
>
>
>
>
> But I'm the novice at this text...
> >
> > Your great job with these "preliminaries" is a bit intimidating, but
very
> > illuminating
>
> Yes, good job on Jasper's part.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:03:04 -0400
> From: "cfalbert" <calbert@hslboxmaster.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
>
> > <<one of the sillier tacks taken in Nabokovian
> > analysis is one where critics ask "Did N. intend for
> > Shade to be a "worse" poet than the author. >>
> >
> > I'm not so sure this is a silly tack. Kinbote's and
> > Shades relative levels of writerly talent is an
> > interesting and unavoidable topic and one VN certainly
> > had control over.
>
> True.......and I have waded through a fair amount of discussion about
> whether Shade is or is not intended to be a "failed poet". But more so in
> the case of the former, it seems a tremendous undertaking to compose such
a
> piece and then be able to "nuance" it sufficiently to convince critical
> readers of "either/or", 999 entirely ambiguous lines.....
>
>
> > <<My question is, could N. make Shade a better poet
> > than
> > himself? ...>>>
> >
> > Could N make a poem better than N could make a poem?
> >
> > Well, if anyone could ...
>
> Don't you find it a touch paradoxical that so many critics disparage
Nabokov
> for a lack of "emotion", in the context of such poetic mastery (such being
> the case whether the poem is or is not great)? Emotionally stunted savant?
>
> btw, what is your take on Fowler?
>
> love,
> cfa
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:26:06 -0700
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF
>
> >>>D. Barton Johnson, the moderator of the n-list is fowarding our nppf
> posts to the n-list.<<<
>
> Which means, among others, N-list members B. Boyd and Dimitri Nabokov may
be
> reading along.
>
> Anyone want to take my hosting spot?
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:43:10 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: RE: NPPF
>
> Johnson is no slouch either -- his _Worlds in Regression_ is one of the
best
> critical texts on VN's work.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pynchon-l@waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l@waste.org] On
> > Behalf Of s~Z
> > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 3:26 PM
> > To: pynchon-l@waste.org
> > Subject: Re: NPPF
> >
> > >>>D. Barton Johnson, the moderator of the n-list is fowarding our nppf
> > posts to the n-list.<<<
> >
> > Which means, among others, N-list members B. Boyd and Dimitri Nabokov
may
> > be
> > reading along.
> >
> > Anyone want to take my hosting spot?
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:08:39 -0700
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF
>
> >>>Johnson is no slouch either -- his _Worlds in Regression_ is one of the
> best
> critical texts on VN's work.<<<
>
> I'll have to take him out for a couple of quarts while I'm up at UCSB
> researching Pale Fire.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 21:44:30 +0100
> From: "Burns, Erik" <Erik.Burns@dowjones.com>
> Subject: re: NPPF - preliminary
>
> Foax:
>
> worth remembering throughout this that _Pale Fire_ was heavily influenced
by
> VN's sudden burst of fame & notoriety after _Lolita_ ("It was a year of
> Tempests: Hurricane/Lolita swept from Florida to Maine." (Canto iii,
> 679-80)) and that arguably the two books have an awful lot in common. I
> think you could even make a case that in broad brushstrokes the "plots"
map
> over each other ... in _Lolita_ it's Humbert Humbert chasing Quilty
because
> of Lolita; in _Pale Fire_ it's Gradus chasing Kinbote because of Shade (or
> Kinbote chasing Shade because of Gradus - these being almost
interchangeable
> and confused because of poor Kinbote's confusion). Key to this is Hazel,
the
> focus of the poem, Shade's horrible loss - who is most certainly the
> inverted doppleganger of the nymph Lolita ("But let's be fair: while
> children of her age/Were cast as elves and fairies on the stage/That
_she'd_
> helped paint for the school pantomime,/My gentle girl appeared as Mother
> Time,/A bent charwoman with slop pail and broom," (Canto ii, 309-13)), in
> this case appearing in the same kind of school play were Quilty made his
> move.
>
> And, of course, "Haze, L." would be how Lolita would be listed on roll
call,
> if they used her nickname and not dolorous Dolores.
>
> When we get there, this might be worth discussing; is the untimely death
of
> Hazel a rewriting of the _Lolita_ story down a different path, the
> now-excluded "middle" of a young girl resulting in murderous psychosis
even
> worse than Humbert's? (Humbert's killing of Quilty is vengeance and
> punishment (he cannot really see his own horribleness - that's his
> sickness - but he can see it in others and act); the murder in _Pale Fire_
> is of a different motivation altogether (one I assume will be fully aired
> here)).
>
> Coincidentally (and on the topic of dedications), Alfred Appel's (now
> there's a Nabokovian name) _The Annotated Lolita_ (1970?) is very similar
to
> _Pale Fire_ in format, with Appel's Preface & Introduction (plus a
selected
> bibilography, checklist of VN's writing and some _Lolita_ criticism),
> followed by _Lolita_ and then Appel's notes. Right before the novel
starts,
> Appel has knowingly interleaved a page-length chunk of _Pale Fire_ (ending
> "...for better or for worse, it is the commentator who has the last
word.")
>
> *ALL* of this - including Appel's critical apparatus, gets the _Lolita_
> dedication ("To VИra", natch) ahead of it ... raising the question, of
> course, of *who* is doing the dedicating, and what is being dedicated.
> Indeed, what is part of the text and what isn't?
>
> etb
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:11:12 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Dave Monroe <monrovius@yahoo.com>
> Subject: RE: NPPF - Preliminary - Title
>
> Except that Remembrance of Things Past doesn't quite
> set you up for Le temps retrouve (Time Regained) the
> way that A la recherche du temps perdu (In Search of
> Lost Time) most pointedly does ...
>
> - --- Jasper Fidget <jasper@hatguild.org> wrote:
> >
> > Agreed. I should have said "noteworthy" instead
> > of "peculiar"; certainly worth looking into.
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:15:01 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Dave Monroe <monrovius@yahoo.com>
> Subject: re: NPPF - preliminary
>
> By the way, as I'm (pointedly?) not reading along, I
> don't know if anyone mentioned that not only does Vera
> = Mme. Nabokov, but also vera = truth. And Botkin
> serves more strongly as an anagram of Kinbote if one
> takes into acount that the "e" might well be silent
> ....
>
> - --- "Burns, Erik" <Erik.Burns@dowjones.com> wrote:
> >
> > *ALL* of this - including Appel's critical
> > apparatus, gets the _Lolita_ dedication ("To VИra",
> > natch) ahead of it ... raising the question, of
> > course, of *who* is doing the dedicating, and what
> > is being dedicated. Indeed, what is part of the
> > text and what isn't?
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:38:23 EDT
> From: MalignD@aol.com
> Subject: Re: NPPF - preliminary
>
> - --part1_189.1c09a87b.2c3b505f_boundary
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>
> In a message dated 7/7/03 4:51:02 PM, Erik.Burns@dowjones.com writes:
>
>
> > <<worth remembering throughout this that _Pale Fire_ was heavily
influenced
> > by VN's sudden burst of fame & notoriety after _Lolita_>>
> >
> There are some interesting things in your post, but I find things to
> question, one being what do you mean by "influence"? Pale Fire followed
Lolita and
> Nabokov is playful in referring to Lolita in Pale Fire (and I never
noticed the
> Haze, L connection, although I feel certain VN did), but I can't quite see
> the "influence" in the relationship between the two books.
>
> <<in _Lolita_ it's Humbert Humbert chasing Quilty because of Lolita; in
_Pale
> Fire_ it's Gradus chasing Kinbote because of Shade (or Kinbote chasing
Shade
> because of Gradus - these being almost interchangeable and confused
because of
> poor Kinbote's confusion).>>
>
> This seems to me simply wrong; in any case it doesn't easily scan. It's
> difficult to see Gradus as other than a figment of Kinbote's imaginings.
Jack
> Grey, who kills Shade, has nothing to do with either Kinbote or Shade
(prior to
> killing Shade, of course); he mistakes Shade for Judge Goldsworth and
kills
> him out of that mistake.
>
> - --part1_189.1c09a87b.2c3b505f_boundary
> Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" FACE=3D"Geneva"
F=
> AMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" SIZE=3D"2"><BR>
> In a message dated 7/7/03 4:51:02 PM, Erik.Burns@dowjones.com writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BLOCKQUOTE CITE STYLE=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT:
5px;=20=
> MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px" TYPE=3D"CITE"></FONT><FONT
COLOR=3D"#0=
> 00000" FACE=3D"Geneva" FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" SIZE=3D"2"><<worth
remembe=
> ring throughout this that _Pale Fire_ was heavily influenced by VN's
sudden=20=
> burst of fame & notoriety after _Lolita_>></FONT><FONT
COLOR=3D"#0=
> 00000" FACE=3D"Geneva" FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" SIZE=3D"2"><BR>
> </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" FACE=3D"Geneva"
FAMILY=3D"SANSSE=
> RIF" SIZE=3D"2"><BR>
> There are some interesting things in your post, but I find things to
questio=
> n, one being what do you mean by "influence"? Pale Fire followed
Loli=
> ta and Nabokov is playful in referring to Lolita in Pale Fire (and I never
n=
> oticed the Haze, L connection, although I feel certain VN did), but I
can't=20=
> quite see the "influence" in the relationship between the two books.
=20=
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <<</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" FACE=3D"Geneva"
FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"=20=
> SIZE=3D"2">in _Lolita_ it's Humbert Humbert chasing Quilty because of
Lolita=
> ; in _Pale Fire_ it's Gradus chasing Kinbote because of Shade (or Kinbote
ch=
> asing Shade because of Gradus - these being almost interchangeable and
confu=
> sed because of poor Kinbote's confusion).>><BR>
> <BR>
> This seems to me simply wrong; in any case it doesn't easily scan.
It=
> 's difficult to see Gradus as other than a figment of Kinbote's
imaginings.&=
> nbsp; Jack Grey, who kills Shade, has nothing to do with either Kinbote
or=20=
> Shade (prior to killing Shade, of course); he mistakes Shade for Judge
Golds=
> worth and kills him out of that mistake.<BR>
> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" FACE=3D"Geneva" FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"
SIZE=3D"=
> 2"></FONT></HTML>
> - --part1_189.1c09a87b.2c3b505f_boundary--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:28:14 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Kevin Troy <kevin@useless.net>
> Subject: re: NPPF - Preliminary - Title
>
> On Mon, 7 Jul 2003, Jasper Fidget wrote:
> > As the text suggests (repeatedly), the title _Pale Fire_ may come from
> > Shakespeare's _Timon of Athens_ 4:3, line 423:
> > [snip]
>
> Later on, Paul said of Prof. Botkin:
> > ...I do honestly believe that the first and
> > immediate association many readers of Pale Fire will have is
> >
> > When he himself might his quietus make/ With a bare bodkin . .
> >
> > Hamlet Act 3, Scene 1
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > Incidentally there's another place in Shakespeare where the words 'pale'
> > and 'fire' occur in the same line. (I read somewhere)
>
> The other place is _Hamlet_, I, v, end of the ghost's speech (l. 89-91):
>
> The glow-worm shows the matin to be near
> And 'gins to pale his uneffectual fire.
> Adieu, adieu, adieu. Remember me.
>
> Notably, "pale" is a transitive verb here, not an adjective as in Timon's
> harrangue or in Kinbote's usage in the Foreward.
>
> In 1930, Nabokov tranlated several passages from Hamlet and published them
> in a Russian emigre paper in Berlin. They include the ghost's speech and
> Hamlet's III, i soliloquoy. Based on this, Kinbote's Index's gloss of
> "Botkin" as a "Danish stilletto," and other evidence, Priscilla Meyer
> claims in _Find What the Sailor Has Hidden_ (Wesleyan U. Press, 1988) that
> "Shade's 'Pale Fire' may come from _Timon_, but Nabokov's _Pale Fire_
> comes from _Hamlet_" (page 113). Chris Ackerly, writing in _Nabokov
> Studies_ ("Pale Fire: Three Notes Toward a Thetic Solution," Nab. Studies
> vol. 2, 1995), explores this further, noting Shade's conspicuous (in this
> light, at least) _lack_ of allusion to _Hamlet_ in "Pale Fire" the poem.
>
> I will post more about this when we get to the Commentary -- hard to say
> when it's appropriate to post things for this GR, because we are dealing
> with a hypertext novel here.
>
> Cheers,
> Kevin T.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 10:26:55 +1000
> From: jbor <jbor@bigpond.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
>
> on 8/7/03 4:31 AM, Malignd wrote:
>
> > Could N make a poem better than N could make a poem?
> >
> > Well, if anyone could ...
>
> There are sequences in the poem which do seem quite "good", such as the
> conceit and imagery in that opening stanza, and there are some clever and
> playful tropes which are typically Nabokovian, but then there are other
> parts of it which seem deliberately terrible, though these don't always
> coincide with the bits that Kinbote chastises as weak or self-indulgent.
>
> What's the critical consensus on Nabokov's own poetry?
>
> The character of Shade, both as reflected through the poem and in
Kinbote's
> biographical notes, also emerges as a somewhat ironic portrayal imo. I
> suspect, though can't say for certain, that the poem 'Pale Fire' is
intended
> as parodic (of Eliot, for example, as much as of some of the more absurd
> excesses of the Romantics).
>
> best
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 20:47:44 EDT
> From: Bandwraith@aol.com
> Subject: re: NPPF- Preliminary- Title
>
> - --part1_123.239b06f5.2c3b6eb0_boundary
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> Ahoy thar, mateys!
>
> "The rods! the rods!" cried Starbuck to the crew, suddenly
> admonished to vigilance by the vivid lightning that had just
> been darting flambeaux, to light Ahab to his post. "Are they
> overboard? drop them over, fore and aft. Quick!"
>
> "Avast!" cried Ahab; "let's have fair play here, though we
> be the weaker side. Yet I'll contribute to raise rods on the
> Himmalehs and Andes, that all the world may be secured;
> but out on privileges! Let them be, Sir."
>
> "Look aloft!" cried Starbuck. "The St. Elmo's Lights(corpus
> sancti) corpusants! the corpusants!"
>
> All the yard-arms were tipped with a pallid fire; and touched
> at each tri-pointed lightning-rod-end with three tapering white
> flames, each of the three tall masts was silently burning in
> that sulphurous air, like three gigantic wax tapers before an
altar.
> ..
> (Moby Dick, Chapter cxix, "The Candles" )
>
> http://www.princeton.edu/~batke/moby/moby_119.html
>
> respectfully
>
>
> - --part1_123.239b06f5.2c3b6eb0_boundary
> Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"
FACE=
> =3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">Ahoy thar, mateys!<BR>
> <BR>
> "The rods! the rods!" cried Starbuck
to=
> the crew, suddenly <BR>
> admonished to vigilance by the vivid
li=
> ghtning that had just <BR>
> been darting flambeaux, to light Ahab
t=
> o his post. "Are they <BR>
> overboard? drop them over, fore and
aft=
> .. Quick!" <BR>
> <BR>
> "Avast!" cried Ahab; "let's have fair
p=
> lay here, though we <BR>
> be the weaker side. Yet I'll
contribute=
> to raise rods on the <BR>
> Himmalehs and Andes, that all the
world=
> may be secured; <BR>
> but out on privileges! Let them be,
Sir=
> .." <BR>
> <BR>
> "Look aloft!" cried Starbuck. "The
St.=20=
> Elmo's Lights(corpus <BR>
> sancti) corpusants! the corpusants!"
<B=
> R>
> <BR>
> All the yard-arms were tipped with a
pa=
> llid fire; and touched <BR>
> at each tri-pointed lightning-rod-end
w=
> ith three tapering white <BR>
> flames, each of the three tall masts
wa=
> s silently burning in <BR>
> that sulphurous air, like three
giganti=
> c wax tapers before an altar. <BR>
> .. <BR>
> (Moby Dick, Chapter cxix, "The Candles" )<BR>
> <BR>
> http://www.princeton.edu/~batke/moby/moby_119.html<BR>
> <BR>
> respectfully<BR>
> <BR>
> </FONT></HTML>
> - --part1_123.239b06f5.2c3b6eb0_boundary--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> In a message dated 7/7/2003 5:33:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> bcoley@us.ibm.com writes:
>
>
> > Pardon me for jumping in, but this caught my eye today...
> >
> >
http://business.boston.com/business/globe/articles/2003/07/04/website_turns_t
> > ables_on_government_officials
> >
> >
>
> It's been covered, mate-
>
> http://waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l&month=0307&msg=82492&sort=date
>
> but always good to here from a like mind, thanks.
>
> respectfully
>
> - --part1_16e.2114f8fb.2c3b775e_boundary
> Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"
FACE=
> =3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated 7/7/2003 5:33:08 PM Eastern
Dayligh=
>
> ------------------------------
>
>>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:06:45 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Kevin Troy <kevin@useless.net>
> Subject: Fw: Wikipedia
>
> Hey Ya'll/ Gruess Euch--
> The message below was posted to NABOKV-L last week (yes yes I know there's
> a lot of cross-posting these days). It's an interesting project, and
> checking it out, I noticed that both the English and German Pynchon
> articles are also incomplete -- in English, nothing on either VL, the
> short stories, or the essays; in German, nothing on any of the books.
> Pynchon-l gets an external link, and Pomona's pages are linked twice, for
> some reason.
>
> So now we have something to do with our summer vacations, eh?
>
> Cheers,
> Kevin T.
>
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: <felix.liebau@nexgo.de>
> To: <chtodel@cox.net>
> Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 1:15 AM
> Subject: Nabokov, Wikipedia
>
> Dear List, I would like to bring Wikipedia your attention. Wikipedia is
> a very ambitious project aimed at creating an online encyclopedia in the
> form of a Wiki Wiki, which means that everybody is free to create or
> edit any article. There are no prerequisites, you can just go ahead and
> contribute your knowledge. Contrary to earlier projects, this is dead
> serious, many articles are of an amazing quality, and there is very
> little vandalism.
>
> There are however many subjects that would deserve more attention, and
> Russian literature (as well as Russian history) seems to be one. For
> example, the Nabokov-related articles are rather sketchy, there is no
> article on the Russian emigration, the article on the Russian civil war
> could be overhauled, etc. etc.
>
> I would therefore like to invite you to share your knowledge and
> contribute to this amazing project. Although everybody can pick an
> article and type right away, it is a good idea to create an account
> (again, no prerequisites) and to visit the Welcome page at
> http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Welcome,_newcomers .
> Please don╢t hesitate to contribute. Thank you and best regards, FL.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:37:14 -0700 (PDT)
> From: slothenvypride <slothenvypride7@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - preliminary
>
> - --0-1243807449-1057631834=:70832
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Frankly, I am highly impressed with Pynchon-L so far, not only for its
high level of scholarship in these preliminary discussions of Pale Fire, but
also for the civility which the listers are exercising. One must admit that
the presence of N-listers, CNN, etc. undoubtedly plays no small part in
these civilities of late, but the quality of discussion has been upbeat,
supportive, and erudite.
>
> I am looking forward to continued discussions of Pale Fire and, starting
next week, the group reading and discussions of Vineland.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> R. Laird
> (slothenvypride7)
>
>
>
>
> - ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> - --0-1243807449-1057631834=:70832
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
>
> <DIV>Frankly, I am highly impressed with Pynchon-L so far, not only for
its high level of scholarship in these preliminary discussions of <EM>Pale
Fire</EM>, but also for the civility which the listers are
exercising. One must admit that the presence of N-listers, CNN,
etc. undoubtedly plays no small part in these civilities of late, but the
quality of discussion has been upbeat, supportive, and erudite.</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>I am looking forward to continued discussions of <EM>Pale Fire
</EM>and, starting next week, the group reading and discussions of
<EM>Vineland</EM>.</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>Respectfully,</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
>.
From: "pynchon-l-digest" <owner-pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
To: <pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 12:00 AM
Subject: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3379
>
> pynchon-l-digest Tuesday, July 8 2003 Volume 02 : Number
3379
>
>
>
> Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire & House of Leaves
> RE: NPPF: anagrams
> Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
> Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Dedication and Epigraph
> NPPF
> Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
> Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Dedication and Epigraph
> Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
> Re: NPPF
> RE: NPPF
> Re: NPPF
> re: NPPF - preliminary
> RE: NPPF - Preliminary - Title
> re: NPPF - preliminary
> Re: 1984 Foreword: Internet and social control
> Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
> Re: NPPF - preliminary
> re: NPPF - Preliminary - Title
> Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
> re: NPPF- Preliminary- Title
> Re: 1984 Foreword: Internet and social control
> Urgent call for prayer
> Fw: Wikipedia
> Re: NPPF - preliminary
> The Happy Couple
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:31:55 -0400
> From: "cfalbert" <calbert@hslboxmaster.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
>
> Be careful here........one of the sillier tacks taken in Nabokovian
analysis
> is one where critics ask "Did N. intend for Shade to be a "worse" poet
than
> the author?" My question is, could N. make Shade a better poet than
himself?
>
> It may be that PF is a "great poem" in parts, and less so in others.....It
> is hard to argue that those first few lines aren't a remarkable
> achievement........not only is the metaphor singularly fecund (PI), but it
> scans exquisitely......(Boyd, at one point, suggests that these lines
> constitute a substantial contribution to the art)
>
> It does appear at times to respectfully "mimic" the English Romanticists,
> and at others, almost lampoon Frost........
>
> keep those pheasant tracks in mind at all times.....
>
> love,
> cfa
>
>
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> To: <pynchon-l@waste.org>
> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 12:37 PM
> Subject: RE: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
>
>
> > So lyrically I guess it's a strong poem then? But is "Pale Fire" a
*good*
> > poem? Does it really merit a book-length commentary and index? Is John
> > Shade a *good* poet, or is he, as Kernan writes, "the belated writer who
> has
> > no authentic voice of his own but merely echoes earlier stronger
writers"?
> > (Alvin B. Kernan, "Reading Zemblan: The Audience Disappears in _Pale
> > Fire_").
> >
> > akaJasperFidget
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Elainemmbell@aol.com [mailto:Elainemmbell@aol.com]
> > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 11:03 AM
> > > To: jasper@hatguild.org; pynchon-l@waste.org
> > > Subject: Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
> > >
> > > In a message dated 7/7/2003 9:47:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> > > jasper@hatguild.org writes:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > (someone with better poetry voodoo might explain their purpose,
> > > although I
> > > recall being told it has to do with attempting to guide or ease the
> > > reader's
> > > eye through transitions)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Punctuation and indentation decisions in poetry do function as Jasper
> > > suggests but also provide the musical timing and cadence of the work.
> For
> > > instance, in Canto One, lines 22-24:
> > >
> > > "Reading from left to right in winter's code:
> > > A dot, an arrow pointing back; repeat:
> > > Dot, arrow pointing back...A pheasant's feet!"
> > >
> > > You can "hear" the stop at :, the quarter-stop at , and the half-stop
> at:
> > > followed by the rhythmic stop at the second: then the actual repeat
> picks
> > > up the implied rhythm only to trip into the kind of trill implied by
the
> > > ellipsis rounding up to the double stop at the final !
> > >
> > > Whereas in lines 245-246 of Canto Two use the indentation rhythm to
make
> > > the line "Lafontaine was wrong:" the equivalent in beats as the
> apparently
> > > longer next line:
> > > "Dead is the mandible, alive the song." The combination of a long
> opening
> > > indent plus a colon stop stretches the line with fewer syllables into
> the
> > > same time signature as the longer line.
> > >
> > > In my conjure woman's humble interpretation, that is.
> > > Elaine M.M. Bell, Writer
> > > (860) 523-9225
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 11:09:00 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Dedication and Epigraph
>
> - --- Jasper Fidget <jasper@hatguild.org> wrote:
> > for a discussion of the Shadean reading as well as other theories see
Boyd's
> article here:
> >
> > http://www.libraries.psu.edu/iasweb/nabokov/boydonmc.htm
> >
> > -- would it be useful post a brief list of the existing authorship
> theories...?).
>
> I guess they can't be avoided. But it seems premature. Obviously some
here
> are VERY well versed with the theories and references in PF, so It's
> unavoidable that these theories come forward. It just seems that we'd be
> starting at the end to list/explain them all now. I'd say it might be
better
> to point out the possibilities for interpreting specific portions of the
text
> as we get into them along the way. But I'm the novice at this text...
>
> Your great job with these "preliminaries" is a bit intimidating, but very
> illuminating.
>
> David Morris
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: 07 Jul 2003 14:20:56 -0400
> From: Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net>
> Subject: NPPF
>
> D. Barton Johnson, the moderator of the n-list is fowarding our nppf
> posts to the n-list.
>
> P.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 11:31:40 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Malignd <malignd@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
>
> <<one of the sillier tacks taken in Nabokovian
> analysis is one where critics ask "Did N. intend for
> Shade to be a "worse" poet than the author. >>
>
> I'm not so sure this is a silly tack. Kinbote's and
> Shades relative levels of writerly talent is an
> interesting and unavoidable topic and one VN certainly
> had control over.
>
> <<My question is, could N. make Shade a better poet
> than
> himself? ...>>>
>
> Could N make a poem better than N could make a poem?
>
> Well, if anyone could ...
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: 07 Jul 2003 14:51:53 -0400
> From: Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Dedication and Epigraph
>
> On Mon, 2003-07-07 at 14:09, David Morris wrote:
> >
> > --- Jasper Fidget <jasper@hatguild.org> wrote:
> > > for a discussion of the Shadean reading as well as other theories see
Boyd's
> > article here:
> > >
> > > http://www.libraries.psu.edu/iasweb/nabokov/boydonmc.htm
> > >
> > > -- would it be useful post a brief list of the existing authorship
> > theories...?).
> >
> > I guess they can't be avoided. But it seems premature. Obviously some
here
> > are VERY well versed with the theories and references in PF, so It's
> > unavoidable that these theories come forward. It just seems that we'd
be
> > starting at the end to list/explain them all now. I'd say it might be
better
> > to point out the possibilities for interpreting specific portions of the
text
> > as we get into them along the way.
>
>
> What we need to strive for is a grand unifying theory, a theory of
> theories. (if there isn't a satisfactory one already) This is being
> presumptuous I realize but aim for the stars . . .
>
> Brian Boyd in his latest (I think) imagines and constructs three stages
> of understanding: the reading; the rereading; and the re-rereading.
>
> Sounds familiar?--as from last week's discussion.
>
>
>
>
> But I'm the novice at this text...
> >
> > Your great job with these "preliminaries" is a bit intimidating, but
very
> > illuminating
>
> Yes, good job on Jasper's part.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:03:04 -0400
> From: "cfalbert" <calbert@hslboxmaster.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
>
> > <<one of the sillier tacks taken in Nabokovian
> > analysis is one where critics ask "Did N. intend for
> > Shade to be a "worse" poet than the author. >>
> >
> > I'm not so sure this is a silly tack. Kinbote's and
> > Shades relative levels of writerly talent is an
> > interesting and unavoidable topic and one VN certainly
> > had control over.
>
> True.......and I have waded through a fair amount of discussion about
> whether Shade is or is not intended to be a "failed poet". But more so in
> the case of the former, it seems a tremendous undertaking to compose such
a
> piece and then be able to "nuance" it sufficiently to convince critical
> readers of "either/or", 999 entirely ambiguous lines.....
>
>
> > <<My question is, could N. make Shade a better poet
> > than
> > himself? ...>>>
> >
> > Could N make a poem better than N could make a poem?
> >
> > Well, if anyone could ...
>
> Don't you find it a touch paradoxical that so many critics disparage
Nabokov
> for a lack of "emotion", in the context of such poetic mastery (such being
> the case whether the poem is or is not great)? Emotionally stunted savant?
>
> btw, what is your take on Fowler?
>
> love,
> cfa
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:26:06 -0700
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF
>
> >>>D. Barton Johnson, the moderator of the n-list is fowarding our nppf
> posts to the n-list.<<<
>
> Which means, among others, N-list members B. Boyd and Dimitri Nabokov may
be
> reading along.
>
> Anyone want to take my hosting spot?
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:43:10 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: RE: NPPF
>
> Johnson is no slouch either -- his _Worlds in Regression_ is one of the
best
> critical texts on VN's work.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pynchon-l@waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l@waste.org] On
> > Behalf Of s~Z
> > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 3:26 PM
> > To: pynchon-l@waste.org
> > Subject: Re: NPPF
> >
> > >>>D. Barton Johnson, the moderator of the n-list is fowarding our nppf
> > posts to the n-list.<<<
> >
> > Which means, among others, N-list members B. Boyd and Dimitri Nabokov
may
> > be
> > reading along.
> >
> > Anyone want to take my hosting spot?
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:08:39 -0700
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF
>
> >>>Johnson is no slouch either -- his _Worlds in Regression_ is one of the
> best
> critical texts on VN's work.<<<
>
> I'll have to take him out for a couple of quarts while I'm up at UCSB
> researching Pale Fire.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 21:44:30 +0100
> From: "Burns, Erik" <Erik.Burns@dowjones.com>
> Subject: re: NPPF - preliminary
>
> Foax:
>
> worth remembering throughout this that _Pale Fire_ was heavily influenced
by
> VN's sudden burst of fame & notoriety after _Lolita_ ("It was a year of
> Tempests: Hurricane/Lolita swept from Florida to Maine." (Canto iii,
> 679-80)) and that arguably the two books have an awful lot in common. I
> think you could even make a case that in broad brushstrokes the "plots"
map
> over each other ... in _Lolita_ it's Humbert Humbert chasing Quilty
because
> of Lolita; in _Pale Fire_ it's Gradus chasing Kinbote because of Shade (or
> Kinbote chasing Shade because of Gradus - these being almost
interchangeable
> and confused because of poor Kinbote's confusion). Key to this is Hazel,
the
> focus of the poem, Shade's horrible loss - who is most certainly the
> inverted doppleganger of the nymph Lolita ("But let's be fair: while
> children of her age/Were cast as elves and fairies on the stage/That
_she'd_
> helped paint for the school pantomime,/My gentle girl appeared as Mother
> Time,/A bent charwoman with slop pail and broom," (Canto ii, 309-13)), in
> this case appearing in the same kind of school play were Quilty made his
> move.
>
> And, of course, "Haze, L." would be how Lolita would be listed on roll
call,
> if they used her nickname and not dolorous Dolores.
>
> When we get there, this might be worth discussing; is the untimely death
of
> Hazel a rewriting of the _Lolita_ story down a different path, the
> now-excluded "middle" of a young girl resulting in murderous psychosis
even
> worse than Humbert's? (Humbert's killing of Quilty is vengeance and
> punishment (he cannot really see his own horribleness - that's his
> sickness - but he can see it in others and act); the murder in _Pale Fire_
> is of a different motivation altogether (one I assume will be fully aired
> here)).
>
> Coincidentally (and on the topic of dedications), Alfred Appel's (now
> there's a Nabokovian name) _The Annotated Lolita_ (1970?) is very similar
to
> _Pale Fire_ in format, with Appel's Preface & Introduction (plus a
selected
> bibilography, checklist of VN's writing and some _Lolita_ criticism),
> followed by _Lolita_ and then Appel's notes. Right before the novel
starts,
> Appel has knowingly interleaved a page-length chunk of _Pale Fire_ (ending
> "...for better or for worse, it is the commentator who has the last
word.")
>
> *ALL* of this - including Appel's critical apparatus, gets the _Lolita_
> dedication ("To VИra", natch) ahead of it ... raising the question, of
> course, of *who* is doing the dedicating, and what is being dedicated.
> Indeed, what is part of the text and what isn't?
>
> etb
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:11:12 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Dave Monroe <monrovius@yahoo.com>
> Subject: RE: NPPF - Preliminary - Title
>
> Except that Remembrance of Things Past doesn't quite
> set you up for Le temps retrouve (Time Regained) the
> way that A la recherche du temps perdu (In Search of
> Lost Time) most pointedly does ...
>
> - --- Jasper Fidget <jasper@hatguild.org> wrote:
> >
> > Agreed. I should have said "noteworthy" instead
> > of "peculiar"; certainly worth looking into.
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:15:01 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Dave Monroe <monrovius@yahoo.com>
> Subject: re: NPPF - preliminary
>
> By the way, as I'm (pointedly?) not reading along, I
> don't know if anyone mentioned that not only does Vera
> = Mme. Nabokov, but also vera = truth. And Botkin
> serves more strongly as an anagram of Kinbote if one
> takes into acount that the "e" might well be silent
> ....
>
> - --- "Burns, Erik" <Erik.Burns@dowjones.com> wrote:
> >
> > *ALL* of this - including Appel's critical
> > apparatus, gets the _Lolita_ dedication ("To VИra",
> > natch) ahead of it ... raising the question, of
> > course, of *who* is doing the dedicating, and what
> > is being dedicated. Indeed, what is part of the
> > text and what isn't?
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:38:23 EDT
> From: MalignD@aol.com
> Subject: Re: NPPF - preliminary
>
> - --part1_189.1c09a87b.2c3b505f_boundary
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>
> In a message dated 7/7/03 4:51:02 PM, Erik.Burns@dowjones.com writes:
>
>
> > <<worth remembering throughout this that _Pale Fire_ was heavily
influenced
> > by VN's sudden burst of fame & notoriety after _Lolita_>>
> >
> There are some interesting things in your post, but I find things to
> question, one being what do you mean by "influence"? Pale Fire followed
Lolita and
> Nabokov is playful in referring to Lolita in Pale Fire (and I never
noticed the
> Haze, L connection, although I feel certain VN did), but I can't quite see
> the "influence" in the relationship between the two books.
>
> <<in _Lolita_ it's Humbert Humbert chasing Quilty because of Lolita; in
_Pale
> Fire_ it's Gradus chasing Kinbote because of Shade (or Kinbote chasing
Shade
> because of Gradus - these being almost interchangeable and confused
because of
> poor Kinbote's confusion).>>
>
> This seems to me simply wrong; in any case it doesn't easily scan. It's
> difficult to see Gradus as other than a figment of Kinbote's imaginings.
Jack
> Grey, who kills Shade, has nothing to do with either Kinbote or Shade
(prior to
> killing Shade, of course); he mistakes Shade for Judge Goldsworth and
kills
> him out of that mistake.
>
> - --part1_189.1c09a87b.2c3b505f_boundary
> Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" FACE=3D"Geneva"
F=
> AMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" SIZE=3D"2"><BR>
> In a message dated 7/7/03 4:51:02 PM, Erik.Burns@dowjones.com writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BLOCKQUOTE CITE STYLE=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT:
5px;=20=
> MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px" TYPE=3D"CITE"></FONT><FONT
COLOR=3D"#0=
> 00000" FACE=3D"Geneva" FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" SIZE=3D"2"><<worth
remembe=
> ring throughout this that _Pale Fire_ was heavily influenced by VN's
sudden=20=
> burst of fame & notoriety after _Lolita_>></FONT><FONT
COLOR=3D"#0=
> 00000" FACE=3D"Geneva" FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" SIZE=3D"2"><BR>
> </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" FACE=3D"Geneva"
FAMILY=3D"SANSSE=
> RIF" SIZE=3D"2"><BR>
> There are some interesting things in your post, but I find things to
questio=
> n, one being what do you mean by "influence"? Pale Fire followed
Loli=
> ta and Nabokov is playful in referring to Lolita in Pale Fire (and I never
n=
> oticed the Haze, L connection, although I feel certain VN did), but I
can't=20=
> quite see the "influence" in the relationship between the two books.
=20=
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <<</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" FACE=3D"Geneva"
FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"=20=
> SIZE=3D"2">in _Lolita_ it's Humbert Humbert chasing Quilty because of
Lolita=
> ; in _Pale Fire_ it's Gradus chasing Kinbote because of Shade (or Kinbote
ch=
> asing Shade because of Gradus - these being almost interchangeable and
confu=
> sed because of poor Kinbote's confusion).>><BR>
> <BR>
> This seems to me simply wrong; in any case it doesn't easily scan.
It=
> 's difficult to see Gradus as other than a figment of Kinbote's
imaginings.&=
> nbsp; Jack Grey, who kills Shade, has nothing to do with either Kinbote
or=20=
> Shade (prior to killing Shade, of course); he mistakes Shade for Judge
Golds=
> worth and kills him out of that mistake.<BR>
> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" FACE=3D"Geneva" FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"
SIZE=3D"=
> 2"></FONT></HTML>
> - --part1_189.1c09a87b.2c3b505f_boundary--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:28:14 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Kevin Troy <kevin@useless.net>
> Subject: re: NPPF - Preliminary - Title
>
> On Mon, 7 Jul 2003, Jasper Fidget wrote:
> > As the text suggests (repeatedly), the title _Pale Fire_ may come from
> > Shakespeare's _Timon of Athens_ 4:3, line 423:
> > [snip]
>
> Later on, Paul said of Prof. Botkin:
> > ...I do honestly believe that the first and
> > immediate association many readers of Pale Fire will have is
> >
> > When he himself might his quietus make/ With a bare bodkin . .
> >
> > Hamlet Act 3, Scene 1
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > Incidentally there's another place in Shakespeare where the words 'pale'
> > and 'fire' occur in the same line. (I read somewhere)
>
> The other place is _Hamlet_, I, v, end of the ghost's speech (l. 89-91):
>
> The glow-worm shows the matin to be near
> And 'gins to pale his uneffectual fire.
> Adieu, adieu, adieu. Remember me.
>
> Notably, "pale" is a transitive verb here, not an adjective as in Timon's
> harrangue or in Kinbote's usage in the Foreward.
>
> In 1930, Nabokov tranlated several passages from Hamlet and published them
> in a Russian emigre paper in Berlin. They include the ghost's speech and
> Hamlet's III, i soliloquoy. Based on this, Kinbote's Index's gloss of
> "Botkin" as a "Danish stilletto," and other evidence, Priscilla Meyer
> claims in _Find What the Sailor Has Hidden_ (Wesleyan U. Press, 1988) that
> "Shade's 'Pale Fire' may come from _Timon_, but Nabokov's _Pale Fire_
> comes from _Hamlet_" (page 113). Chris Ackerly, writing in _Nabokov
> Studies_ ("Pale Fire: Three Notes Toward a Thetic Solution," Nab. Studies
> vol. 2, 1995), explores this further, noting Shade's conspicuous (in this
> light, at least) _lack_ of allusion to _Hamlet_ in "Pale Fire" the poem.
>
> I will post more about this when we get to the Commentary -- hard to say
> when it's appropriate to post things for this GR, because we are dealing
> with a hypertext novel here.
>
> Cheers,
> Kevin T.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 10:26:55 +1000
> From: jbor <jbor@bigpond.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
>
> on 8/7/03 4:31 AM, Malignd wrote:
>
> > Could N make a poem better than N could make a poem?
> >
> > Well, if anyone could ...
>
> There are sequences in the poem which do seem quite "good", such as the
> conceit and imagery in that opening stanza, and there are some clever and
> playful tropes which are typically Nabokovian, but then there are other
> parts of it which seem deliberately terrible, though these don't always
> coincide with the bits that Kinbote chastises as weak or self-indulgent.
>
> What's the critical consensus on Nabokov's own poetry?
>
> The character of Shade, both as reflected through the poem and in
Kinbote's
> biographical notes, also emerges as a somewhat ironic portrayal imo. I
> suspect, though can't say for certain, that the poem 'Pale Fire' is
intended
> as parodic (of Eliot, for example, as much as of some of the more absurd
> excesses of the Romantics).
>
> best
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 20:47:44 EDT
> From: Bandwraith@aol.com
> Subject: re: NPPF- Preliminary- Title
>
> - --part1_123.239b06f5.2c3b6eb0_boundary
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> Ahoy thar, mateys!
>
> "The rods! the rods!" cried Starbuck to the crew, suddenly
> admonished to vigilance by the vivid lightning that had just
> been darting flambeaux, to light Ahab to his post. "Are they
> overboard? drop them over, fore and aft. Quick!"
>
> "Avast!" cried Ahab; "let's have fair play here, though we
> be the weaker side. Yet I'll contribute to raise rods on the
> Himmalehs and Andes, that all the world may be secured;
> but out on privileges! Let them be, Sir."
>
> "Look aloft!" cried Starbuck. "The St. Elmo's Lights(corpus
> sancti) corpusants! the corpusants!"
>
> All the yard-arms were tipped with a pallid fire; and touched
> at each tri-pointed lightning-rod-end with three tapering white
> flames, each of the three tall masts was silently burning in
> that sulphurous air, like three gigantic wax tapers before an
altar.
> ..
> (Moby Dick, Chapter cxix, "The Candles" )
>
> http://www.princeton.edu/~batke/moby/moby_119.html
>
> respectfully
>
>
> - --part1_123.239b06f5.2c3b6eb0_boundary
> Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"
FACE=
> =3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">Ahoy thar, mateys!<BR>
> <BR>
> "The rods! the rods!" cried Starbuck
to=
> the crew, suddenly <BR>
> admonished to vigilance by the vivid
li=
> ghtning that had just <BR>
> been darting flambeaux, to light Ahab
t=
> o his post. "Are they <BR>
> overboard? drop them over, fore and
aft=
> .. Quick!" <BR>
> <BR>
> "Avast!" cried Ahab; "let's have fair
p=
> lay here, though we <BR>
> be the weaker side. Yet I'll
contribute=
> to raise rods on the <BR>
> Himmalehs and Andes, that all the
world=
> may be secured; <BR>
> but out on privileges! Let them be,
Sir=
> .." <BR>
> <BR>
> "Look aloft!" cried Starbuck. "The
St.=20=
> Elmo's Lights(corpus <BR>
> sancti) corpusants! the corpusants!"
<B=
> R>
> <BR>
> All the yard-arms were tipped with a
pa=
> llid fire; and touched <BR>
> at each tri-pointed lightning-rod-end
w=
> ith three tapering white <BR>
> flames, each of the three tall masts
wa=
> s silently burning in <BR>
> that sulphurous air, like three
giganti=
> c wax tapers before an altar. <BR>
> .. <BR>
> (Moby Dick, Chapter cxix, "The Candles" )<BR>
> <BR>
> http://www.princeton.edu/~batke/moby/moby_119.html<BR>
> <BR>
> respectfully<BR>
> <BR>
> </FONT></HTML>
> - --part1_123.239b06f5.2c3b6eb0_boundary--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> In a message dated 7/7/2003 5:33:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> bcoley@us.ibm.com writes:
>
>
> > Pardon me for jumping in, but this caught my eye today...
> >
> >
http://business.boston.com/business/globe/articles/2003/07/04/website_turns_t
> > ables_on_government_officials
> >
> >
>
> It's been covered, mate-
>
> http://waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l&month=0307&msg=82492&sort=date
>
> but always good to here from a like mind, thanks.
>
> respectfully
>
> - --part1_16e.2114f8fb.2c3b775e_boundary
> Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"
FACE=
> =3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated 7/7/2003 5:33:08 PM Eastern
Dayligh=
>
> ------------------------------
>
>>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:06:45 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Kevin Troy <kevin@useless.net>
> Subject: Fw: Wikipedia
>
> Hey Ya'll/ Gruess Euch--
> The message below was posted to NABOKV-L last week (yes yes I know there's
> a lot of cross-posting these days). It's an interesting project, and
> checking it out, I noticed that both the English and German Pynchon
> articles are also incomplete -- in English, nothing on either VL, the
> short stories, or the essays; in German, nothing on any of the books.
> Pynchon-l gets an external link, and Pomona's pages are linked twice, for
> some reason.
>
> So now we have something to do with our summer vacations, eh?
>
> Cheers,
> Kevin T.
>
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: <felix.liebau@nexgo.de>
> To: <chtodel@cox.net>
> Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 1:15 AM
> Subject: Nabokov, Wikipedia
>
> Dear List, I would like to bring Wikipedia your attention. Wikipedia is
> a very ambitious project aimed at creating an online encyclopedia in the
> form of a Wiki Wiki, which means that everybody is free to create or
> edit any article. There are no prerequisites, you can just go ahead and
> contribute your knowledge. Contrary to earlier projects, this is dead
> serious, many articles are of an amazing quality, and there is very
> little vandalism.
>
> There are however many subjects that would deserve more attention, and
> Russian literature (as well as Russian history) seems to be one. For
> example, the Nabokov-related articles are rather sketchy, there is no
> article on the Russian emigration, the article on the Russian civil war
> could be overhauled, etc. etc.
>
> I would therefore like to invite you to share your knowledge and
> contribute to this amazing project. Although everybody can pick an
> article and type right away, it is a good idea to create an account
> (again, no prerequisites) and to visit the Welcome page at
> http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Welcome,_newcomers .
> Please don╢t hesitate to contribute. Thank you and best regards, FL.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:37:14 -0700 (PDT)
> From: slothenvypride <slothenvypride7@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - preliminary
>
> - --0-1243807449-1057631834=:70832
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Frankly, I am highly impressed with Pynchon-L so far, not only for its
high level of scholarship in these preliminary discussions of Pale Fire, but
also for the civility which the listers are exercising. One must admit that
the presence of N-listers, CNN, etc. undoubtedly plays no small part in
these civilities of late, but the quality of discussion has been upbeat,
supportive, and erudite.
>
> I am looking forward to continued discussions of Pale Fire and, starting
next week, the group reading and discussions of Vineland.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> R. Laird
> (slothenvypride7)
>
>
>
>
> - ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> - --0-1243807449-1057631834=:70832
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
>
> <DIV>Frankly, I am highly impressed with Pynchon-L so far, not only for
its high level of scholarship in these preliminary discussions of <EM>Pale
Fire</EM>, but also for the civility which the listers are
exercising. One must admit that the presence of N-listers, CNN,
etc. undoubtedly plays no small part in these civilities of late, but the
quality of discussion has been upbeat, supportive, and erudite.</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>I am looking forward to continued discussions of <EM>Pale Fire
</EM>and, starting next week, the group reading and discussions of
<EM>Vineland</EM>.</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>Respectfully,</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
>.