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Fw: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3383 PALE FIRE
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----- Original Message -----
From: "pynchon-l-digest" <owner-pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
To: <pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 10:10 AM
Subject: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3383
>>
> Date: 09 Jul 2003 03:16:02 -0400
> From: Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net>
> Subject: re: We =?ISO-8859-1?Q?don=92t?= really care about Kinbote ...
>
> On Tue, 2003-07-08 at 22:51, Terrance wrote:
> > an excellent post from David FQ Morris.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > NO! Not We.
> >
> > "Used instead of I, especially by a writer wishing to maintain an
> > impersonal tone."
> >
> > --Encyclopedia of American Literary Criticism, Newbore Leans Press,
> > 2003
> >
> > Oh come on you guys ... you can do better than that.
> >
> > Why don't we care about Kinbote?
> > Why do we?
>
>
> I, we, and you care about Kinbote because Kinbote is essential to
> finding out what probably happens (objectively happens) and what
> probably doesn't happen. His manner of providing this information is
> quite funny if not very endearing.
>
> p.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:39:48 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: RE: NPPF -- Pale Fire vs. Lolita
>
> Fair enough; I didn't mean to suggest HH is *only* a twisted little child
> molester; t'would be a disservice to both novel and novelist. But I
cannot
> imagine that he is *not* a child molester. Lolita is twelve years old,
and
> I don't see that as so different from seven when it comes to the lust of a
> middle-aged man or the uncomfortable identification with that lust on the
> part of the reader. I believe it is justifiable to demonize him for that,
> whatever else he may be, and certainly that a reader might identify with
him
> to a degree does not therefore excuse him for his behavior (and so it's to
> that reader's chagrin that HH has put him in parallel). Whether the
reader
> wishes to cast that lust into pejorative terms is largely a matter of
> semantics.
>
> I find HH every bit as solipsistic as Kinbote though; Lolita is not a
person
> to him any more than Hazel is to Kinbote, and both characters suffer from
> the malaise of being trapped in time, prisoners of their past whether real
> or imaginary, and of the elaborate constructions of their own minds that
> don't have any room for people other than themselves. For all the games
> they play and all the tricks they pull to exalt their private worlds, HH
is
> finally and ultimately a scoundrel, and Kinbote is... well, that remains
to
> be decided.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pynchon-l@waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l@waste.org] On
> > Behalf Of The Great Quail
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 1:08 PM
> > To: The Whole Sick Crew
> > Subject: Re: NPPF -- Pale Fire vs. Lolita
> >
> > > As for having sympathy with Humbert: perhaps the persona Humbert
creates
> > for
> > > himself (and the reader) can be sympathetic, but that's the big trap
of
> > the
> > > novel (since we see through Humbert's eyes, and he doesn't show us
> > > everything): the man himself, the character behind the voice, is a
> > twisted
> > > little child molester -- something that must be kept in mind when
> > reading
> > > _Lolita_.
> >
> > I think it is a mischaracterization to reduce Humbert to a "twisted
little
> > child molester." That's too simplistic: it's too easy to demonize him in
> > that way. There is a genuine sexiness to "Lolita" -- and yes, I know you
> > are
> > seeing everything through Humbert's eyes -- that would not be there if
> > Dolores Haze were, say, 7 years old. There's an erotic nexus between the
> > two, even despite the fact that Lolita is underage and essentially being
> > coerced.
> >
> > Part of the power of Humbert's obsession comes from the fact that it is
> > fixed in a very queasy zone, where sexuality is developing and therefore
> > open to ambiguity. No matter how well Nabokov wrote, reading about a
> > "rationalized" fixation for a pre-pubescent child would be very
different
> > than reading Humbert's fixation with budding "nymphets." Does this mean
I
> > think it's healthy or all right? No, of course not. Humbert is still a
> > terrible man, and of course his relationship with Lolita was abusive.
But
> > I
> > do feel it to be different from child molestation.
> >
> > Regarding Kinbote's sexuality, I think there is nothing sexy at all
about
> > it
> > -- and certainly not because he's gay. He is pathetic and self-involved,
> > viewing men and boys as mere objects. As has been suggested here today,
> > his
> > pornography is the poem itself, his erotic thrill is insinuating himself
> > deeper into Shade's life, attempting to merge with his art....
> >
> > --Quail
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:50:32 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: RE: NPPF - preliminary
>
> The reasons for Hazel's suicide may be more complicated than
> unattractiveness and social maladjustment (although statistics on suicide
> rates among her demographic might imply their sufficiency). There is
reason
> to believe Hazel suffers from some sort of mental illness: the Shades
> believed their daughter's poltergeist incident was "an outward extension
or
> expulsion of insanity," but never had it diagnosed because they disliked
> "modern voodoo-psychiatry" (p. 166). (Granted this comes from
Kinbote....)
> There is reason to believe that Hazel's condition in many ways mirrors
> Kinbote's (without going into Boyd's ghost theory for now): that isolation
> leads to despair which leads to suicidal thoughts, so a better explanation
> for Hazel's death might therefore be sought in Kinbote. Schizophrenia
might
> be argued in both cases as well. Ultimately, verisimilitude is a
difficult
> question when it comes to suicide: one of the main things family and
friends
> ask afterwards is "why?"
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: David Morris [mailto:fqmorris@yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 1:03 PM
> > To: Jasper Fidget; pynchon-l@waste.org
> > Subject: RE: NPPF - preliminary
> >
> >
> > --- Jasper Fidget <jasper@hatguild.org> wrote:
> > > Despite the linkage, I have trouble with Hazel as nymphet -- if
anything
> > she's more anti-nymphet, inspiring opposite reactions to those around
her;
> > it's
> > her sense of extreme rejection that pushes her to the ice and not the
> > extreme
> > acceptance of a Humbert.
> >
> > Here's another question re. Hazel: Isn't the reason for her suicide a
bit
> > shallow? Do we really want to buy into "not pretty" as a tragedy?
> > Nabokov
> > could have come up with any number of tragic circumstances for her
torment
> > besides this.
> >
> > > Also, I can't say I agree that Lolita leads Humbert astray. That puts
a
> > whole lot on the shoulders of an innocent little girl
> >
> > Sure, but it's slightly implied in the text if I remember. Also it fits
> > the
> > classic response of the pedophile after he's caught: " She/He wanted
it."
> >
> > Didn't that little girl on the Anubis want it?
> >
> > David Morris
> >
> >
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 05:19:05 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: We dont really care about Kinbote ...
>
> Doug, the one-note wonder with mant masks:
>
> > From: slothenvypride
> > Incidentally, and not to sound caustic or step on anyone's toes here,
>
> Who? You? Never!
>
> >but will anyone who is posting Pale Fire-related analysis and commentary
be
> equating any of it to Thomas Pynchon any time soon?
>
> Nobody here is answerable to you.
>
> David Morris
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
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>
> ------------------------------
/
>
> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 05:42:54 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: re: NPPF - preliminary
>
> - --- Mondegreen <gwf@greenworldcenter.org> wrote:
> >
> > In the case of Hazel, her father --who is also uncommonly homely-- is
heavy
> with the consciousness of her physical limitations.
>
> Yes, and he sees her defects as a reflection of himself, not without a
little
> guilt. But maybe his projections are her real problem.
>
> > John Shade's closeup focus on his daughter's physical defects, her
"swollen
> feet" and "psoriatic fingernails," (355) and his readiness to share these
> minutae with the world, inform the reader that for Shade this
unattractiveness
> is integrally and inevitably linked to unhappiness, Hazel's and his own.
Does
> he ever inquire or --like David Morris-- wonder if Hazel's misery might
derive
> from any cause or causes other than her bodily appearance? "She'd
criticize
> Ferociously our projects" (352), but I don't think Shade ever took the
hint.
>
> Yes. I think you've got it. I made a complete list of her miseries
(which
> I'll post at the reading of Canto 2) as described by Shade, and most of
them
> are about her homely appearance, and the tragedy that she'd never get a
date.
> And the part about her switching words around is not a speach impediment,
it's
> her playing with words, much like her father the poet. I think VN wants
us to
> question Shade's assessment of his daughter's woes.
>
> > Re what David Morris was missing in Ada: There is at least the tragedy
of
> Ada's half-sister who suffers the karmic consequences of Van's and Ada's
> passion.
>
> I'm convinced the part I'm missing has more to do with Van's mother's
madness
> in glimpsing through the false world of Anti-terra into the "terrors of
Terra,"
> our world. I think the whole novel is the construct of a schizophrenic.
>
> David Morris
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 05:47:53 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: RE: NPPF - preliminary
>
> - --- Jasper Fidget <jasper@hatguild.org> wrote:
> > There is reason to believe Hazel suffers from some sort of mental
illness:
> the Shades believed their daughter's poltergeist incident was "an outward
> extension or expulsion of insanity," but never had it diagnosed because
they
> disliked "modern voodoo-psychiatry" (p. 166). (Granted this comes from
> Kinbote....)
>
> Right. It's not mentioned by Shade, but this might be the underlying
reason.
> I'll have to read that part again.
>
> DM
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:37:30 -0400
> From: "charles albert" <calbert@hslboxmaster.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - preliminary
>
> Don't forget that Shade is, if not epileptic, then certainly a victim of
> seizures.......Hazel's adventures with the lights may be an echo of her
> father's condition.
>
>
> love,
> cfa
>
>
> love,
> cfa
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Morris" <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> To: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>; <pynchon-l@waste.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 8:47 AM
> Subject: RE: NPPF - preliminary
>
>
> >
> > --- Jasper Fidget <jasper@hatguild.org> wrote:
> > > There is reason to believe Hazel suffers from some sort of mental
> illness:
> > the Shades believed their daughter's poltergeist incident was "an
outward
> > extension or expulsion of insanity," but never had it diagnosed because
> they
> > disliked "modern voodoo-psychiatry" (p. 166). (Granted this comes from
> > Kinbote....)
> >
> > Right. It's not mentioned by Shade, but this might be the underlying
> reason.
> > I'll have to read that part again.
> >
> > DM
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> > http://sbc.yahoo.com
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 09:53:12 -0400
> From: The Great Quail <quail@libyrinth.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - preliminary
>
> Mondegreen writes,
>
> > Re <<I think in many ways the *idea* of PF is more attractive than the
> > actual novel itself.>> Here is a general idea: Brian Boyd remarked
> > somewhere I think something to the effect that no writer repays careful
> > reading more than Nabokov. Thank you Brian Boyd. The "actual novel
itself"
> > is a work of great depth and mysterious beauty.
>
> Well, not to take on an unpopular opinion just for the sake of argument,
but
> I did read "Pale Fire" twice. I think it's a great book in many ways, but
> not because of its "mysterious beauty." (Although I can certainly agree to
> its "great depth.") I mean, obviously Nabokov is "writing as" Kinbote,
hence
> the pomposity in tone and occasional spots of overblown prose. And he
> certainly does this well -- Kinbote comes across quite as fully realized
as
> Humbert. The issue for me is, I don't find Kinbote's "voice" as
interesting
> as I find Humbert's, and I appreciate the more fluid prose of "Lolita" a
lot
> more than the clunky twists of "Pale Fire." In fact, I find some of the
> Zembla passages to verge on the tedious -- I was much more interested in
> Kinbote's perceived relationship with Shade than his (probably fictional)
> history. Again, I find the idea of Zembla and "Pale Fire" more interesting
> than the actual manifestation of that idea.
>
> I suppose I wanted Zembla to be even more fantastic -- give me more about
> the Black Rose Paladins! Tell me more about its strange customs and
> language! But not getting this, I'd default to wanting to know more about
> Kinbote and Shade. To me, the best part of the book was Kinbote's
delusional
> relationship with the poet; his utter disregard for the real John Shade.
>
> Anyway, while I appreciate that the prose of PF brings chills to Keith,
and
> you obviously enjoy it greatly, for my own taste, I occasionally found it
> off-putting. Still, the structure, multiple-layers, and general idea of
> "Pale Fire" I find magnificent.
>
> And as for Boyd's comment, I am assuming he's excluding Joyce on the
account
> of it being so obvious...?
>
> And finally, regarding Shade's actual poem... I think Mondegreen is
dead-on
> with his comments. What I find particularly amazing is that Nabokov wrote
> the damn thing, and yet is feels so 100% utterly American. John Shade and
> his poem just feel *right.* That just...well, it amazes me.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> - --Quail
>
> PS: Just to mention, I am actually a pretty big fan of Nabokov, and I do
> think he's a genius. Back in high school, I was assigned "The Luzhin
> Defense" and it just blew me away -- set me on the right path, so to
> speak....
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 09:58:46 -0400
> From: The Great Quail <quail@libyrinth.com>
> Subject: NPPF -- Why care about Kinbote?
>
> To address Terrence's question:
>
> Kinbote is sympathetic because he is *pathetic.* Even though he is a
> loathsome, grotesque, horrible, loveless man, he is most likely out of
> control of his own actions, and is, at heart, also a sad, broken,
> friendless, desperate man. And while this state of affairs is the probably
> result of his own actions, with or without the additional burden of
> schizophrenia, he is nevertheless pathetic, and therefore earns our
> sympathy, and maybe even fondness. (A fondness we can grant because we are
> not his next door neighbor!)
>
> - --Quail
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:17:28 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: NPPF - Preliminary - Zembla (1)
>
> Zembla - resembla: a sort of bizarro-world of reflections and fairy tales,
> peopled by real-world caricatures and literary characters, located
somewhere
> between Russia and Scandinavia, Kinbote's Zembla is obviously fictitious,
> but it has many real-world sources:
>
> Novaya Zemlya (Nova Zembla - "New Land"): an archipelago north of western
> Russia between the Barents Sea and the Kara Sea. The two main islands are
> separated by the Matochkin Strait and divided by a northern continuation
of
> the Ural Mountains, the southern of the two mainly tundra, the northern
more
> glacial. Although sparsely populated, Novaya Zemlya has often been used
for
> nuclear testing.
>
> "The Russians knew of Novaya Zemlya from the 11th or 12th century, when
> traders from Novgorod visited the area. For western Europeans, the search
> for the Northeast passage in the 16th century led to its exploration. The
> first visit was by Hugh Willoughby in 1553. Willem Barentsz in 1596
rounded
> the north point of Novaya Zemlya, and wintered on the east coast near the
> northern tip. During this voyage the west coast was mapped." (from
> wikipedia)
>
> http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novaya_Zemlya
>
> Terra MODIS Satellite image:
> http://visibleearth.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/viewrecord?8126
>
> Some photos:
> http://www.grandpoohbah.net/novaya_zemlya.htm
>
> See _Pale Fire_ pp 137-138 for some Zembla geography.
>
> Kinbote asserts that his own Zembla is *not* Nova Zembla (see p. 267).
>
> The Novaya Zemlya Effect: "Named after the Russian island in the Arctic
> Ocean, where it often occurs, the Novaya Zemlya Effect is produced by a
> strong, shallow, surface-based inversion acting as a mirror, which
reflects
> the light of the sun when it is just below the horizon."
> (jackstephensimages.com)
>
>
http://jackstephensimages.com/Merchant/photographicgallery/novayazemlya/nova
> yazemlyapage.html
>
> http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf015/sf015p12.htm
>
> Zemlya means "land" in Russian, and there are others: Severnaya Zemlya,
> Zemlya Frantsa Iosefa, etc.
>
> *
>
> Pope in his "Essay on Man" lists Zembla as one "extreme of Vice"
>
> Vice is a monster of so frightful mien,
> As to be hated needs but to be seen;
> Yet seen too oft, familiar with her face,
> We first endure, then pity, then embrace.
> But where th'extreme of Vice was ne'er agreed:
> Ask where's the north?--at York 'tis on the Tweed;
> In Scotland at the Orcades; and there
> At Greenland, Zembla, or the Lord knows where.
> No creature owns it in the first degree,
> But thinks his neighbour farther gone than he;
> E'vn those who dwell beneath its very zone,
> Or never feel the rage or never own;
> What happier natures shrink at with affright,
> The hard inhabitant contends is right.
> (II-V)
>
> http://www.theotherpages.org/poems/pope-e2.html
>
> (Kinbote refers to this poem in _Pale Fire_, p. 272)
>
> In _Battle of the Books_, Swift refers to Nova Zembla as the home of
> Criticism: "She dwelt on the Top of a snowy Mountain in Nova Zembla":
>
> 'Meanwhile Momus, fearing the worst, and calling to mind an ancient
prophecy
> which bore no very good face to his children the Moderns, bent his flight
to
> the region of a malignant deity called Criticism. She dwelt on the top of
a
> snowy mountain in Nova Zembla; there Momus found her extended in her den,
> upon the spoils of numberless volumes, half devoured. At her right hand
sat
> Ignorance, her father and husband, blind with age; at her left, Pride, her
> mother, dressing her up in the scraps of paper herself had torn. There
was
> Opinion, her sister, light of foot, hood-winked, and head-strong, yet
giddy
> and perpetually turning. About her played her children, Noise and
> Impudence, Dulness and Vanity, Positiveness, Pedantry, and Ill-manners.
The
> goddess herself had claws like a cat; her head, and ears, and voice
> resembled those of an ass; her teeth fallen out before, her eyes turned
> inward, as if she looked only upon herself; her diet was the overflowing
of
> her own gall; her spleen was so large as to stand prominent, like a dug of
> the first rate; nor wanted excrescences in form of teats, at which a crew
of
> ugly monsters were greedily sucking; and, what is wonderful to conceive,
the
> bulk of spleen increased faster than the sucking could diminish it.
> "Goddess," said Momus, "can you sit idly here while our devout
worshippers,
> the Moderns, are this minute entering into a cruel battle, and perhaps now
> lying under the swords of their enemies? who then hereafter will ever
> sacrifice or build altars to our divinities? Haste, therefore, to the
> British Isle, and, if possible, prevent their destruction; while I make
> factions among the gods, and gain them over to our party."' (Swift,
1704).
>
> http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/s/s97ba/
>
>
> A running theme in _Life of Johnson_ surrounds Boswell's attempts to
> convince Johnson of the value of Scotland (from which Boswell hails and
> toward which Johnson has a low opinion). (Zembla as the generic North.)
>
> akaPasperLidget
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:18:15 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: NPPF - Preliminary - Zembla (2)
>
> Zembla is also linked to Ultima Thule / Ultimate Tully / Greenland, part
of
> the Viking exploration that moves through Iceland to Vin Land / Vineland /
> America.
>
> Thule, Ultima Thule
> The Farthest Land; a geographical region believed to be six days' sail
north
> of Britain, the most northern region of the world. (The mercenaries
holding
> Charles captive in Onhava are from Thule.)
>
> From http://www.libraries.psu.edu/iasweb/nabokov/wultima.htm
>
> "Of what would have been Nabokov's last novel in Russian, written in Paris
> in 1939-40, only the first two chapters survive, as 'Ultima Thule' and
> 'Solus Rex.' An emotional artist relates to his recently-deceased wife a
> curious tale of Adam Falter, who has discovered the 'essence of things.'
>
> "The phrase Ultima Thule describes a distant territory or remote goal or
> ideal. Thule was the northernmost region of the habitable world to ancient
> Greek geographers, from the time of the fourth century Greek navigator
> Pytheas visited a northern island he called Thule, which has variously
been
> identified as Iceland, Norway, or the Shetland Islands."
> (from Zembla web-site)
>
> Thule is the name of the northwestern peninsula of Greenland pointing
toward
> Canada, and also a town there. It was also the site of a WWII US Navy
base.
>
> Photos of Thule: http://jackstephensimages.com/Merchant/index.html
> Map: http://jackstephensimages.com/Merchant/mappages/map2.html
>
> From the same web-site, the origin of Thule (pronounced too-lee):
>
> "The name, Thule, is very old and historic. In the third century BC an
> exploration fleet departed the Greek colony of Massilla, the present day
> Marseilles, France. They proceeded past the Straits of Gibraltar, into the
> Atlantic Ocean, and headed north to what is now Northern Scotland. There,
> they were told that far to the north was a land called Thule, which was
the
> northernmost place occupied by people.
>
> "This news was carried back to the Mediterranean world, where the name
> Ultima Thule (Thule, the Ultimate) became the name for the unknown land,
> which was located at the extreme northern limit of human habitation. This
> usage carried on through the Middle Ages.
>
> "According to Richard Vaughan in his 'Northwest Greenland, A History', in
> the early 1900's a Danish explorer, the artist, Harald Moltke, first
applied
> the name, Thule to this area, presumably because here were located the
> world's northernmost native people. Later Knud Rasmussen and Peter
Freuchen
> used the name for their famous trading post."
>
> *
>
> A Nova Zembla is also a kind of Rhododendron:
>
> http://www.hort.net/gallery/view/eri/rhonz/
>
> From Nabokov-L:
>
> "EDITOR'S NOTE: Sam Schuman's posting below is in reply to Donald
> Harington's horticultural query re "Nova Zembla." In his 1981 note Schuman
> quotes Field's NABOKV: HIS LIFE IN PART where Field tells of VN's
> Great-grandfather (1795-1873) participated in an expedition to Novaya
Zemlya
> where a river was named for him. VN gives the same information in Chapter
> III of SPEAK, MEMORY. Boyd points out that VN was mistaken. VN's ancestor
> did not participate in the expedition, although the river was named for
him
> by his friend, the expedition leader. VN was mulling over PALE FIRE at the
> time he learned of his ancestor's connection with Nova Zembla. AS to the
> Rhododendron named "Nova Zembla," my guess would be that the cultivar
> might be descended from a species originating in Novaya Zemlya and perhaps
> first described as a result of the early expedition.
>
> "It shouldn't be too hard for a plant taxonomist to trace the history of
the
> name. If the 'Nova Zembla' name is relatively recent, there might be some
> connection with VN's SPEAK, MEMORY. If not, my historical guess might be
> right. DBJ
>
> "From: SSCHUMAN@unca.edu
> In the Spring, 1981 issue of the NVRN (now Nabokovian) I had a little note
> called 'Another "Nova Zembla",' on just this subject (hardly the sort of
> earth-shaking publication anyone remembers!). My conclusion: A true
> Kinbotian plant--one horticultural direction urges to 'give them some
> shade.'"
>
> http://listserv.ucsb.edu/lsv-cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9503&L=nabokv-l&P=R977
>
> *
>
> The Zemblan language is a combination of northern tongues including
German,
> Russian, Dutch, and so forth. See Commentary note to line 615, p 235 for
> Zemblan language linkages.
>
> *
>
> Zembla as an intrusion into the Real:
>
> Brian Boyd relates a story in his _Magic of Artistic Discovery_ concerning
> "a seed that nearly sprouted another way":
>
> "Zembla occurs in an article published on July 30, 1939, in the
Paris-based
> Russian ИmigrИ daily _Poslednie novosti_, to which Nabokov contributed.
The
> article recalls the first days of the League of Nations, when each nation
> was entitled to five seats for its delegates: 'Those who were not members
of
> the delegation could occupy the peripheral seats where one could see or
hear
> nothing. Daniele VarИ, a member of the Italian secretariat, decided to
take
> the vacant seats behind the Venezuela delegation for his compatriots. He
> sneaked into the Assembly Hall at night and on a placard where the name of
a
> country was to be displayed, wrote "Zembla." On the following day,
pundits
> cast one quick glance at the placard and nodded significantly, "Zembla, of
> course"'. Since Nabokov began working later in 1939 on his last,
abandoned
> Russian novel, _Solus Rex_, which revolves around Ultima Thule and
> eventually in _Pale Fire_ would evolve into Zembla, it seems quite
possible
> this strange intrusion of an almost legendary land into modern politics
may
> have precipitated something in his imagination and lingered there quietly
in
> suspended germination for twenty years." (Boyd, p. 80 quoting from
> Barabtarlo and Shikhovtsev, "The Republic of Zembla", 1987, 54-56).
>
> akaGasperCidget (I'm trying to quit though)
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 10:24:21 -0400
> From: Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - preliminary
>
> David Morris wrote:
>
> >--- Jasper Fidget <jasper@hatguild.org> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>There is reason to believe Hazel suffers from some sort of mental
illness:
> >>
> >>
> >the Shades believed their daughter's poltergeist incident was "an outward
> >extension or expulsion of insanity," but never had it diagnosed because
they
> >disliked "modern voodoo-psychiatry" (p. 166). (Granted this comes from
> >Kinbote....)
> >
> >Right. It's not mentioned by Shade, but this might be the underlying
reason.
> >I'll have to read that part again.
> >
> >DM
> >
> >
>
> I hate having such a key event in the novel driven by insanity.
> Clinical depression doesn't sit well with me either. Nabokov is better
> than that. Some more rational course of events is needed.
>
> A secondary reason for giving mental illness short shrift is that there
> were at the time psycho-tropic and anti-psychotic drugs in wide use.
> Shade wouldn't have left his daughter untreated. He is on record as
> hating Freud so he might have distrusted psychotherapy. However
> nowhere is is said he had anything against chemistry.
>
> I think genuine unhappiness on Hazel's part compounded by awareness of
> her parents unhappiness with her is the a major motivation for her act.
>
> She chose death as the better alternative to life. With what she had
> going against her I don't find this hard to imagine.
>
> P.
>
>
>
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 11:40:30 -0400
> From: Terrance <lycidas2@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF -- Why care about Kinbote?
>
>
> > Kinbote is sympathetic because he is *pathetic.* Even though he is a
> > loathsome, grotesque, horrible, loveless man, he is most likely out of
> > control of his own actions, and is, at heart, also a sad, broken,
> > friendless, desperate man. And while this state of affairs is the
probably
> > result of his own actions, with or without the additional burden of
> > schizophrenia, he is nevertheless pathetic, and therefore earns our
> > sympathy, and maybe even fondness. (A fondness we can grant because we
are
> > not his next door neighbor!)
>
>
> Imagine, if you can, a non-professional reader of Modern fiction,
> intelligent and well-read, approaching for the first time N's _Pale
> Fire_. He has decided to read it because he likes Thomas R. Pynchon's
> novels and essays and he is aware that The Pincher was somehow
> influenced by the great Cornellian elephant. Has has read Lolita, of
> course. He doesn't read The NY Observer and he knows nothing at all
> about Boyd's theory about a discarded Autobiographical Epigraph. He's
> never read a biography of N and probably never will. A careful reader,
> he reads the Epigraph, Foreword, Poem, Commentary, Index, About the
> Author. What our intelligent, well-read reader discovers is an appalling
> problem. He has been seduced by another of N's narrators. HH was
> little child molester. He was witty and smart and cultured and as
> someone said, he could write like N. Our dear reader knew that before he
> read _Lolita_.
>
> In both books, N is never really undeniably present, even in the
> mock-academic commentary. He works hard to disappear. But he is never
> undeniably disassociated, either, and therein lies the appalling
> problem. How can the reader help but wonder if the narrator's
> moralizing, of which there is a great deal in both books, is to be taken
> seriously or not. Is this N's view or not? Should it be mine? Mine, just
> so that I can go along with the narrator? Or is it a view from the other
> side? Even if we know only what a reader of The Pincher would know
> about N's life, it is hard to believe, at times, that N is merely
> dramatizing a narrator who is completely dissociated from him.
> I mean, these guys have got Style. But what about the style? What about
> its intended quality? For example, if the poetry and the commentary are
> uneven, to whom do we attribute the heavy-handed symbolism and some
> simply unforgivable metaphors? And to whom the brilliance, the poetic
> insights, the critical acumen? To N's deliberate hand? Just old N
> characterizing his narrator?
>
> Perhaps our dear reader is insisting on value judgments that don't
> apply. Our narrator is confused. Mad! And the text is schizoid to boot!
> But if the narrator, mad or sane, judges, how is the reader to avoid
> doing so?
>
> As our dear reader reads the professional efforts to explain these fairy
> tales with sources outside the books, and with careful re-re-re reading,
> he may be wondering why any reader of fairy tales would fear being
> trapped in a beautiful spider web even if at the very center of it a
> suffering consciousness has earned out pity.
>
> Beauty plus Pity. That is as close as we get to a definition of Art.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> http://www.npr.org/programs/atc/
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> >
> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:09:11 -0400
> From: "cfalbert" <calbert@hslboxmaster.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Pale Fire/Borges Linked to P
>
> Michael Wood identifies Borges' "Pierre Menard, Author of the Quixote" as
an
> model for PF.......
>
> Found an affordable anthology at the local Borders......
>
> It opens as follows:
>
> "The visible oeuvre left by this novelist can be easily and briefly
> enumerated; unpardonable, therefore, are the omissions and additions
> perpetrated by Mme. Henri Bachelier in a decietful catalog that a certain
> newspaper, whose Protestant leanings are surely no secret, had been so
> inconsiderate as to inflict upon that newspaper's deplorable readers -
few
> and Calvinist (if not Masonic and circumcised) though they may be.
Menard's
> true friends have greeted that catalog with alarm, and even with a degree
> of sadness. One might note that only yesterday were we gathered before his
> marmoreal place of rest, among the dreary cypresses, and already Error is
> attempting to tarnish his bright Memory.........Most decidedly, a brief
> rectification is imperative......"
>
> I seem to recall a COL49 commentator suggesting Borges' The Aleph as
> Pynchon's model.......
>
> love,
> cfa
>
>
>
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> To: <pynchon-l@waste.org>
> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 12:40 PM
> Subject: RE: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
>
>
> > Does Marcel ever get to the point where he writes it? Can't remember.
I
> > suppose the definition might be extended to include all Kunstlerroman.
> > (Interesting angle: _Pale Fire_ as Kunstlerroman.... -- a bit of a
stretch
> > certainly.)
> >
> > See 162 for Kinbote's rant on Proust.
> >
> > akaJasperFidget
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-pynchon-l@waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l@waste.org] On
> > > Behalf Of Paul Mackin
> > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 12:08 PM
> > > To: pynchon-l@waste.org
> > > Subject: Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
> > >
> > > On Mon, 2003-07-07 at 09:47, Jasper Fidget wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _Pale Fire_ is an "involuted" (or "self-reflexive") novel -- a novel
> > > that
> > > > contains the details concerning its own origin or composition. An
> > > > antecedent is Andre Gide's _The Counterfeiters_ (1926) which is a
> diary
> > > kept
> > > > by a novelist about a work-in-progress called _The Counterfeiters_
> > > (followed
> > > > in the same year by Gide's _Journal of The Counterfeiters_, the
> journal
> > > he'd
> > > > kept while writing the novel _The Counterfeiters_). There's at
least
> > > one
> > > > reference to Gide in _Pale Fire_. Another example of an involuted
> > > novel:
> > > > Raymond Queneau's _Les Enfants du Limon_ (1938). Anyone got more?
> > >
> > > Strange word involuted. Shade uses involute in Canto Three.
> > >
> > > No sound,/No furtive light came from their involute/Abode,
> > >
> > > Isn't A la recherche du temps perdu a reflexive novel
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > P.
> > >
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of pynchon-l-digest V2 #3383
> ********************************
>
> To unsubscribe, send a message to waste@waste.org
> with "unsubscribe pynchon-l-digest" in the message body.
From: "pynchon-l-digest" <owner-pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
To: <pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 10:10 AM
Subject: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3383
>>
> Date: 09 Jul 2003 03:16:02 -0400
> From: Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net>
> Subject: re: We =?ISO-8859-1?Q?don=92t?= really care about Kinbote ...
>
> On Tue, 2003-07-08 at 22:51, Terrance wrote:
> > an excellent post from David FQ Morris.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > NO! Not We.
> >
> > "Used instead of I, especially by a writer wishing to maintain an
> > impersonal tone."
> >
> > --Encyclopedia of American Literary Criticism, Newbore Leans Press,
> > 2003
> >
> > Oh come on you guys ... you can do better than that.
> >
> > Why don't we care about Kinbote?
> > Why do we?
>
>
> I, we, and you care about Kinbote because Kinbote is essential to
> finding out what probably happens (objectively happens) and what
> probably doesn't happen. His manner of providing this information is
> quite funny if not very endearing.
>
> p.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:39:48 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: RE: NPPF -- Pale Fire vs. Lolita
>
> Fair enough; I didn't mean to suggest HH is *only* a twisted little child
> molester; t'would be a disservice to both novel and novelist. But I
cannot
> imagine that he is *not* a child molester. Lolita is twelve years old,
and
> I don't see that as so different from seven when it comes to the lust of a
> middle-aged man or the uncomfortable identification with that lust on the
> part of the reader. I believe it is justifiable to demonize him for that,
> whatever else he may be, and certainly that a reader might identify with
him
> to a degree does not therefore excuse him for his behavior (and so it's to
> that reader's chagrin that HH has put him in parallel). Whether the
reader
> wishes to cast that lust into pejorative terms is largely a matter of
> semantics.
>
> I find HH every bit as solipsistic as Kinbote though; Lolita is not a
person
> to him any more than Hazel is to Kinbote, and both characters suffer from
> the malaise of being trapped in time, prisoners of their past whether real
> or imaginary, and of the elaborate constructions of their own minds that
> don't have any room for people other than themselves. For all the games
> they play and all the tricks they pull to exalt their private worlds, HH
is
> finally and ultimately a scoundrel, and Kinbote is... well, that remains
to
> be decided.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pynchon-l@waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l@waste.org] On
> > Behalf Of The Great Quail
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 1:08 PM
> > To: The Whole Sick Crew
> > Subject: Re: NPPF -- Pale Fire vs. Lolita
> >
> > > As for having sympathy with Humbert: perhaps the persona Humbert
creates
> > for
> > > himself (and the reader) can be sympathetic, but that's the big trap
of
> > the
> > > novel (since we see through Humbert's eyes, and he doesn't show us
> > > everything): the man himself, the character behind the voice, is a
> > twisted
> > > little child molester -- something that must be kept in mind when
> > reading
> > > _Lolita_.
> >
> > I think it is a mischaracterization to reduce Humbert to a "twisted
little
> > child molester." That's too simplistic: it's too easy to demonize him in
> > that way. There is a genuine sexiness to "Lolita" -- and yes, I know you
> > are
> > seeing everything through Humbert's eyes -- that would not be there if
> > Dolores Haze were, say, 7 years old. There's an erotic nexus between the
> > two, even despite the fact that Lolita is underage and essentially being
> > coerced.
> >
> > Part of the power of Humbert's obsession comes from the fact that it is
> > fixed in a very queasy zone, where sexuality is developing and therefore
> > open to ambiguity. No matter how well Nabokov wrote, reading about a
> > "rationalized" fixation for a pre-pubescent child would be very
different
> > than reading Humbert's fixation with budding "nymphets." Does this mean
I
> > think it's healthy or all right? No, of course not. Humbert is still a
> > terrible man, and of course his relationship with Lolita was abusive.
But
> > I
> > do feel it to be different from child molestation.
> >
> > Regarding Kinbote's sexuality, I think there is nothing sexy at all
about
> > it
> > -- and certainly not because he's gay. He is pathetic and self-involved,
> > viewing men and boys as mere objects. As has been suggested here today,
> > his
> > pornography is the poem itself, his erotic thrill is insinuating himself
> > deeper into Shade's life, attempting to merge with his art....
> >
> > --Quail
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:50:32 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: RE: NPPF - preliminary
>
> The reasons for Hazel's suicide may be more complicated than
> unattractiveness and social maladjustment (although statistics on suicide
> rates among her demographic might imply their sufficiency). There is
reason
> to believe Hazel suffers from some sort of mental illness: the Shades
> believed their daughter's poltergeist incident was "an outward extension
or
> expulsion of insanity," but never had it diagnosed because they disliked
> "modern voodoo-psychiatry" (p. 166). (Granted this comes from
Kinbote....)
> There is reason to believe that Hazel's condition in many ways mirrors
> Kinbote's (without going into Boyd's ghost theory for now): that isolation
> leads to despair which leads to suicidal thoughts, so a better explanation
> for Hazel's death might therefore be sought in Kinbote. Schizophrenia
might
> be argued in both cases as well. Ultimately, verisimilitude is a
difficult
> question when it comes to suicide: one of the main things family and
friends
> ask afterwards is "why?"
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: David Morris [mailto:fqmorris@yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 1:03 PM
> > To: Jasper Fidget; pynchon-l@waste.org
> > Subject: RE: NPPF - preliminary
> >
> >
> > --- Jasper Fidget <jasper@hatguild.org> wrote:
> > > Despite the linkage, I have trouble with Hazel as nymphet -- if
anything
> > she's more anti-nymphet, inspiring opposite reactions to those around
her;
> > it's
> > her sense of extreme rejection that pushes her to the ice and not the
> > extreme
> > acceptance of a Humbert.
> >
> > Here's another question re. Hazel: Isn't the reason for her suicide a
bit
> > shallow? Do we really want to buy into "not pretty" as a tragedy?
> > Nabokov
> > could have come up with any number of tragic circumstances for her
torment
> > besides this.
> >
> > > Also, I can't say I agree that Lolita leads Humbert astray. That puts
a
> > whole lot on the shoulders of an innocent little girl
> >
> > Sure, but it's slightly implied in the text if I remember. Also it fits
> > the
> > classic response of the pedophile after he's caught: " She/He wanted
it."
> >
> > Didn't that little girl on the Anubis want it?
> >
> > David Morris
> >
> >
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 05:19:05 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: We dont really care about Kinbote ...
>
> Doug, the one-note wonder with mant masks:
>
> > From: slothenvypride
> > Incidentally, and not to sound caustic or step on anyone's toes here,
>
> Who? You? Never!
>
> >but will anyone who is posting Pale Fire-related analysis and commentary
be
> equating any of it to Thomas Pynchon any time soon?
>
> Nobody here is answerable to you.
>
> David Morris
>
> __________________________________
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>
> ------------------------------
/
>
> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 05:42:54 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: re: NPPF - preliminary
>
> - --- Mondegreen <gwf@greenworldcenter.org> wrote:
> >
> > In the case of Hazel, her father --who is also uncommonly homely-- is
heavy
> with the consciousness of her physical limitations.
>
> Yes, and he sees her defects as a reflection of himself, not without a
little
> guilt. But maybe his projections are her real problem.
>
> > John Shade's closeup focus on his daughter's physical defects, her
"swollen
> feet" and "psoriatic fingernails," (355) and his readiness to share these
> minutae with the world, inform the reader that for Shade this
unattractiveness
> is integrally and inevitably linked to unhappiness, Hazel's and his own.
Does
> he ever inquire or --like David Morris-- wonder if Hazel's misery might
derive
> from any cause or causes other than her bodily appearance? "She'd
criticize
> Ferociously our projects" (352), but I don't think Shade ever took the
hint.
>
> Yes. I think you've got it. I made a complete list of her miseries
(which
> I'll post at the reading of Canto 2) as described by Shade, and most of
them
> are about her homely appearance, and the tragedy that she'd never get a
date.
> And the part about her switching words around is not a speach impediment,
it's
> her playing with words, much like her father the poet. I think VN wants
us to
> question Shade's assessment of his daughter's woes.
>
> > Re what David Morris was missing in Ada: There is at least the tragedy
of
> Ada's half-sister who suffers the karmic consequences of Van's and Ada's
> passion.
>
> I'm convinced the part I'm missing has more to do with Van's mother's
madness
> in glimpsing through the false world of Anti-terra into the "terrors of
Terra,"
> our world. I think the whole novel is the construct of a schizophrenic.
>
> David Morris
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 05:47:53 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: RE: NPPF - preliminary
>
> - --- Jasper Fidget <jasper@hatguild.org> wrote:
> > There is reason to believe Hazel suffers from some sort of mental
illness:
> the Shades believed their daughter's poltergeist incident was "an outward
> extension or expulsion of insanity," but never had it diagnosed because
they
> disliked "modern voodoo-psychiatry" (p. 166). (Granted this comes from
> Kinbote....)
>
> Right. It's not mentioned by Shade, but this might be the underlying
reason.
> I'll have to read that part again.
>
> DM
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:37:30 -0400
> From: "charles albert" <calbert@hslboxmaster.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - preliminary
>
> Don't forget that Shade is, if not epileptic, then certainly a victim of
> seizures.......Hazel's adventures with the lights may be an echo of her
> father's condition.
>
>
> love,
> cfa
>
>
> love,
> cfa
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Morris" <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> To: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>; <pynchon-l@waste.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 8:47 AM
> Subject: RE: NPPF - preliminary
>
>
> >
> > --- Jasper Fidget <jasper@hatguild.org> wrote:
> > > There is reason to believe Hazel suffers from some sort of mental
> illness:
> > the Shades believed their daughter's poltergeist incident was "an
outward
> > extension or expulsion of insanity," but never had it diagnosed because
> they
> > disliked "modern voodoo-psychiatry" (p. 166). (Granted this comes from
> > Kinbote....)
> >
> > Right. It's not mentioned by Shade, but this might be the underlying
> reason.
> > I'll have to read that part again.
> >
> > DM
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> > http://sbc.yahoo.com
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 09:53:12 -0400
> From: The Great Quail <quail@libyrinth.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - preliminary
>
> Mondegreen writes,
>
> > Re <<I think in many ways the *idea* of PF is more attractive than the
> > actual novel itself.>> Here is a general idea: Brian Boyd remarked
> > somewhere I think something to the effect that no writer repays careful
> > reading more than Nabokov. Thank you Brian Boyd. The "actual novel
itself"
> > is a work of great depth and mysterious beauty.
>
> Well, not to take on an unpopular opinion just for the sake of argument,
but
> I did read "Pale Fire" twice. I think it's a great book in many ways, but
> not because of its "mysterious beauty." (Although I can certainly agree to
> its "great depth.") I mean, obviously Nabokov is "writing as" Kinbote,
hence
> the pomposity in tone and occasional spots of overblown prose. And he
> certainly does this well -- Kinbote comes across quite as fully realized
as
> Humbert. The issue for me is, I don't find Kinbote's "voice" as
interesting
> as I find Humbert's, and I appreciate the more fluid prose of "Lolita" a
lot
> more than the clunky twists of "Pale Fire." In fact, I find some of the
> Zembla passages to verge on the tedious -- I was much more interested in
> Kinbote's perceived relationship with Shade than his (probably fictional)
> history. Again, I find the idea of Zembla and "Pale Fire" more interesting
> than the actual manifestation of that idea.
>
> I suppose I wanted Zembla to be even more fantastic -- give me more about
> the Black Rose Paladins! Tell me more about its strange customs and
> language! But not getting this, I'd default to wanting to know more about
> Kinbote and Shade. To me, the best part of the book was Kinbote's
delusional
> relationship with the poet; his utter disregard for the real John Shade.
>
> Anyway, while I appreciate that the prose of PF brings chills to Keith,
and
> you obviously enjoy it greatly, for my own taste, I occasionally found it
> off-putting. Still, the structure, multiple-layers, and general idea of
> "Pale Fire" I find magnificent.
>
> And as for Boyd's comment, I am assuming he's excluding Joyce on the
account
> of it being so obvious...?
>
> And finally, regarding Shade's actual poem... I think Mondegreen is
dead-on
> with his comments. What I find particularly amazing is that Nabokov wrote
> the damn thing, and yet is feels so 100% utterly American. John Shade and
> his poem just feel *right.* That just...well, it amazes me.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> - --Quail
>
> PS: Just to mention, I am actually a pretty big fan of Nabokov, and I do
> think he's a genius. Back in high school, I was assigned "The Luzhin
> Defense" and it just blew me away -- set me on the right path, so to
> speak....
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 09:58:46 -0400
> From: The Great Quail <quail@libyrinth.com>
> Subject: NPPF -- Why care about Kinbote?
>
> To address Terrence's question:
>
> Kinbote is sympathetic because he is *pathetic.* Even though he is a
> loathsome, grotesque, horrible, loveless man, he is most likely out of
> control of his own actions, and is, at heart, also a sad, broken,
> friendless, desperate man. And while this state of affairs is the probably
> result of his own actions, with or without the additional burden of
> schizophrenia, he is nevertheless pathetic, and therefore earns our
> sympathy, and maybe even fondness. (A fondness we can grant because we are
> not his next door neighbor!)
>
> - --Quail
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:17:28 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: NPPF - Preliminary - Zembla (1)
>
> Zembla - resembla: a sort of bizarro-world of reflections and fairy tales,
> peopled by real-world caricatures and literary characters, located
somewhere
> between Russia and Scandinavia, Kinbote's Zembla is obviously fictitious,
> but it has many real-world sources:
>
> Novaya Zemlya (Nova Zembla - "New Land"): an archipelago north of western
> Russia between the Barents Sea and the Kara Sea. The two main islands are
> separated by the Matochkin Strait and divided by a northern continuation
of
> the Ural Mountains, the southern of the two mainly tundra, the northern
more
> glacial. Although sparsely populated, Novaya Zemlya has often been used
for
> nuclear testing.
>
> "The Russians knew of Novaya Zemlya from the 11th or 12th century, when
> traders from Novgorod visited the area. For western Europeans, the search
> for the Northeast passage in the 16th century led to its exploration. The
> first visit was by Hugh Willoughby in 1553. Willem Barentsz in 1596
rounded
> the north point of Novaya Zemlya, and wintered on the east coast near the
> northern tip. During this voyage the west coast was mapped." (from
> wikipedia)
>
> http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novaya_Zemlya
>
> Terra MODIS Satellite image:
> http://visibleearth.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/viewrecord?8126
>
> Some photos:
> http://www.grandpoohbah.net/novaya_zemlya.htm
>
> See _Pale Fire_ pp 137-138 for some Zembla geography.
>
> Kinbote asserts that his own Zembla is *not* Nova Zembla (see p. 267).
>
> The Novaya Zemlya Effect: "Named after the Russian island in the Arctic
> Ocean, where it often occurs, the Novaya Zemlya Effect is produced by a
> strong, shallow, surface-based inversion acting as a mirror, which
reflects
> the light of the sun when it is just below the horizon."
> (jackstephensimages.com)
>
>
http://jackstephensimages.com/Merchant/photographicgallery/novayazemlya/nova
> yazemlyapage.html
>
> http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf015/sf015p12.htm
>
> Zemlya means "land" in Russian, and there are others: Severnaya Zemlya,
> Zemlya Frantsa Iosefa, etc.
>
> *
>
> Pope in his "Essay on Man" lists Zembla as one "extreme of Vice"
>
> Vice is a monster of so frightful mien,
> As to be hated needs but to be seen;
> Yet seen too oft, familiar with her face,
> We first endure, then pity, then embrace.
> But where th'extreme of Vice was ne'er agreed:
> Ask where's the north?--at York 'tis on the Tweed;
> In Scotland at the Orcades; and there
> At Greenland, Zembla, or the Lord knows where.
> No creature owns it in the first degree,
> But thinks his neighbour farther gone than he;
> E'vn those who dwell beneath its very zone,
> Or never feel the rage or never own;
> What happier natures shrink at with affright,
> The hard inhabitant contends is right.
> (II-V)
>
> http://www.theotherpages.org/poems/pope-e2.html
>
> (Kinbote refers to this poem in _Pale Fire_, p. 272)
>
> In _Battle of the Books_, Swift refers to Nova Zembla as the home of
> Criticism: "She dwelt on the Top of a snowy Mountain in Nova Zembla":
>
> 'Meanwhile Momus, fearing the worst, and calling to mind an ancient
prophecy
> which bore no very good face to his children the Moderns, bent his flight
to
> the region of a malignant deity called Criticism. She dwelt on the top of
a
> snowy mountain in Nova Zembla; there Momus found her extended in her den,
> upon the spoils of numberless volumes, half devoured. At her right hand
sat
> Ignorance, her father and husband, blind with age; at her left, Pride, her
> mother, dressing her up in the scraps of paper herself had torn. There
was
> Opinion, her sister, light of foot, hood-winked, and head-strong, yet
giddy
> and perpetually turning. About her played her children, Noise and
> Impudence, Dulness and Vanity, Positiveness, Pedantry, and Ill-manners.
The
> goddess herself had claws like a cat; her head, and ears, and voice
> resembled those of an ass; her teeth fallen out before, her eyes turned
> inward, as if she looked only upon herself; her diet was the overflowing
of
> her own gall; her spleen was so large as to stand prominent, like a dug of
> the first rate; nor wanted excrescences in form of teats, at which a crew
of
> ugly monsters were greedily sucking; and, what is wonderful to conceive,
the
> bulk of spleen increased faster than the sucking could diminish it.
> "Goddess," said Momus, "can you sit idly here while our devout
worshippers,
> the Moderns, are this minute entering into a cruel battle, and perhaps now
> lying under the swords of their enemies? who then hereafter will ever
> sacrifice or build altars to our divinities? Haste, therefore, to the
> British Isle, and, if possible, prevent their destruction; while I make
> factions among the gods, and gain them over to our party."' (Swift,
1704).
>
> http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/s/s97ba/
>
>
> A running theme in _Life of Johnson_ surrounds Boswell's attempts to
> convince Johnson of the value of Scotland (from which Boswell hails and
> toward which Johnson has a low opinion). (Zembla as the generic North.)
>
> akaPasperLidget
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:18:15 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: NPPF - Preliminary - Zembla (2)
>
> Zembla is also linked to Ultima Thule / Ultimate Tully / Greenland, part
of
> the Viking exploration that moves through Iceland to Vin Land / Vineland /
> America.
>
> Thule, Ultima Thule
> The Farthest Land; a geographical region believed to be six days' sail
north
> of Britain, the most northern region of the world. (The mercenaries
holding
> Charles captive in Onhava are from Thule.)
>
> From http://www.libraries.psu.edu/iasweb/nabokov/wultima.htm
>
> "Of what would have been Nabokov's last novel in Russian, written in Paris
> in 1939-40, only the first two chapters survive, as 'Ultima Thule' and
> 'Solus Rex.' An emotional artist relates to his recently-deceased wife a
> curious tale of Adam Falter, who has discovered the 'essence of things.'
>
> "The phrase Ultima Thule describes a distant territory or remote goal or
> ideal. Thule was the northernmost region of the habitable world to ancient
> Greek geographers, from the time of the fourth century Greek navigator
> Pytheas visited a northern island he called Thule, which has variously
been
> identified as Iceland, Norway, or the Shetland Islands."
> (from Zembla web-site)
>
> Thule is the name of the northwestern peninsula of Greenland pointing
toward
> Canada, and also a town there. It was also the site of a WWII US Navy
base.
>
> Photos of Thule: http://jackstephensimages.com/Merchant/index.html
> Map: http://jackstephensimages.com/Merchant/mappages/map2.html
>
> From the same web-site, the origin of Thule (pronounced too-lee):
>
> "The name, Thule, is very old and historic. In the third century BC an
> exploration fleet departed the Greek colony of Massilla, the present day
> Marseilles, France. They proceeded past the Straits of Gibraltar, into the
> Atlantic Ocean, and headed north to what is now Northern Scotland. There,
> they were told that far to the north was a land called Thule, which was
the
> northernmost place occupied by people.
>
> "This news was carried back to the Mediterranean world, where the name
> Ultima Thule (Thule, the Ultimate) became the name for the unknown land,
> which was located at the extreme northern limit of human habitation. This
> usage carried on through the Middle Ages.
>
> "According to Richard Vaughan in his 'Northwest Greenland, A History', in
> the early 1900's a Danish explorer, the artist, Harald Moltke, first
applied
> the name, Thule to this area, presumably because here were located the
> world's northernmost native people. Later Knud Rasmussen and Peter
Freuchen
> used the name for their famous trading post."
>
> *
>
> A Nova Zembla is also a kind of Rhododendron:
>
> http://www.hort.net/gallery/view/eri/rhonz/
>
> From Nabokov-L:
>
> "EDITOR'S NOTE: Sam Schuman's posting below is in reply to Donald
> Harington's horticultural query re "Nova Zembla." In his 1981 note Schuman
> quotes Field's NABOKV: HIS LIFE IN PART where Field tells of VN's
> Great-grandfather (1795-1873) participated in an expedition to Novaya
Zemlya
> where a river was named for him. VN gives the same information in Chapter
> III of SPEAK, MEMORY. Boyd points out that VN was mistaken. VN's ancestor
> did not participate in the expedition, although the river was named for
him
> by his friend, the expedition leader. VN was mulling over PALE FIRE at the
> time he learned of his ancestor's connection with Nova Zembla. AS to the
> Rhododendron named "Nova Zembla," my guess would be that the cultivar
> might be descended from a species originating in Novaya Zemlya and perhaps
> first described as a result of the early expedition.
>
> "It shouldn't be too hard for a plant taxonomist to trace the history of
the
> name. If the 'Nova Zembla' name is relatively recent, there might be some
> connection with VN's SPEAK, MEMORY. If not, my historical guess might be
> right. DBJ
>
> "From: SSCHUMAN@unca.edu
> In the Spring, 1981 issue of the NVRN (now Nabokovian) I had a little note
> called 'Another "Nova Zembla",' on just this subject (hardly the sort of
> earth-shaking publication anyone remembers!). My conclusion: A true
> Kinbotian plant--one horticultural direction urges to 'give them some
> shade.'"
>
> http://listserv.ucsb.edu/lsv-cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9503&L=nabokv-l&P=R977
>
> *
>
> The Zemblan language is a combination of northern tongues including
German,
> Russian, Dutch, and so forth. See Commentary note to line 615, p 235 for
> Zemblan language linkages.
>
> *
>
> Zembla as an intrusion into the Real:
>
> Brian Boyd relates a story in his _Magic of Artistic Discovery_ concerning
> "a seed that nearly sprouted another way":
>
> "Zembla occurs in an article published on July 30, 1939, in the
Paris-based
> Russian ИmigrИ daily _Poslednie novosti_, to which Nabokov contributed.
The
> article recalls the first days of the League of Nations, when each nation
> was entitled to five seats for its delegates: 'Those who were not members
of
> the delegation could occupy the peripheral seats where one could see or
hear
> nothing. Daniele VarИ, a member of the Italian secretariat, decided to
take
> the vacant seats behind the Venezuela delegation for his compatriots. He
> sneaked into the Assembly Hall at night and on a placard where the name of
a
> country was to be displayed, wrote "Zembla." On the following day,
pundits
> cast one quick glance at the placard and nodded significantly, "Zembla, of
> course"'. Since Nabokov began working later in 1939 on his last,
abandoned
> Russian novel, _Solus Rex_, which revolves around Ultima Thule and
> eventually in _Pale Fire_ would evolve into Zembla, it seems quite
possible
> this strange intrusion of an almost legendary land into modern politics
may
> have precipitated something in his imagination and lingered there quietly
in
> suspended germination for twenty years." (Boyd, p. 80 quoting from
> Barabtarlo and Shikhovtsev, "The Republic of Zembla", 1987, 54-56).
>
> akaGasperCidget (I'm trying to quit though)
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 10:24:21 -0400
> From: Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - preliminary
>
> David Morris wrote:
>
> >--- Jasper Fidget <jasper@hatguild.org> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>There is reason to believe Hazel suffers from some sort of mental
illness:
> >>
> >>
> >the Shades believed their daughter's poltergeist incident was "an outward
> >extension or expulsion of insanity," but never had it diagnosed because
they
> >disliked "modern voodoo-psychiatry" (p. 166). (Granted this comes from
> >Kinbote....)
> >
> >Right. It's not mentioned by Shade, but this might be the underlying
reason.
> >I'll have to read that part again.
> >
> >DM
> >
> >
>
> I hate having such a key event in the novel driven by insanity.
> Clinical depression doesn't sit well with me either. Nabokov is better
> than that. Some more rational course of events is needed.
>
> A secondary reason for giving mental illness short shrift is that there
> were at the time psycho-tropic and anti-psychotic drugs in wide use.
> Shade wouldn't have left his daughter untreated. He is on record as
> hating Freud so he might have distrusted psychotherapy. However
> nowhere is is said he had anything against chemistry.
>
> I think genuine unhappiness on Hazel's part compounded by awareness of
> her parents unhappiness with her is the a major motivation for her act.
>
> She chose death as the better alternative to life. With what she had
> going against her I don't find this hard to imagine.
>
> P.
>
>
>
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 11:40:30 -0400
> From: Terrance <lycidas2@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF -- Why care about Kinbote?
>
>
> > Kinbote is sympathetic because he is *pathetic.* Even though he is a
> > loathsome, grotesque, horrible, loveless man, he is most likely out of
> > control of his own actions, and is, at heart, also a sad, broken,
> > friendless, desperate man. And while this state of affairs is the
probably
> > result of his own actions, with or without the additional burden of
> > schizophrenia, he is nevertheless pathetic, and therefore earns our
> > sympathy, and maybe even fondness. (A fondness we can grant because we
are
> > not his next door neighbor!)
>
>
> Imagine, if you can, a non-professional reader of Modern fiction,
> intelligent and well-read, approaching for the first time N's _Pale
> Fire_. He has decided to read it because he likes Thomas R. Pynchon's
> novels and essays and he is aware that The Pincher was somehow
> influenced by the great Cornellian elephant. Has has read Lolita, of
> course. He doesn't read The NY Observer and he knows nothing at all
> about Boyd's theory about a discarded Autobiographical Epigraph. He's
> never read a biography of N and probably never will. A careful reader,
> he reads the Epigraph, Foreword, Poem, Commentary, Index, About the
> Author. What our intelligent, well-read reader discovers is an appalling
> problem. He has been seduced by another of N's narrators. HH was
> little child molester. He was witty and smart and cultured and as
> someone said, he could write like N. Our dear reader knew that before he
> read _Lolita_.
>
> In both books, N is never really undeniably present, even in the
> mock-academic commentary. He works hard to disappear. But he is never
> undeniably disassociated, either, and therein lies the appalling
> problem. How can the reader help but wonder if the narrator's
> moralizing, of which there is a great deal in both books, is to be taken
> seriously or not. Is this N's view or not? Should it be mine? Mine, just
> so that I can go along with the narrator? Or is it a view from the other
> side? Even if we know only what a reader of The Pincher would know
> about N's life, it is hard to believe, at times, that N is merely
> dramatizing a narrator who is completely dissociated from him.
> I mean, these guys have got Style. But what about the style? What about
> its intended quality? For example, if the poetry and the commentary are
> uneven, to whom do we attribute the heavy-handed symbolism and some
> simply unforgivable metaphors? And to whom the brilliance, the poetic
> insights, the critical acumen? To N's deliberate hand? Just old N
> characterizing his narrator?
>
> Perhaps our dear reader is insisting on value judgments that don't
> apply. Our narrator is confused. Mad! And the text is schizoid to boot!
> But if the narrator, mad or sane, judges, how is the reader to avoid
> doing so?
>
> As our dear reader reads the professional efforts to explain these fairy
> tales with sources outside the books, and with careful re-re-re reading,
> he may be wondering why any reader of fairy tales would fear being
> trapped in a beautiful spider web even if at the very center of it a
> suffering consciousness has earned out pity.
>
> Beauty plus Pity. That is as close as we get to a definition of Art.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> http://www.npr.org/programs/atc/
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> >
> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:09:11 -0400
> From: "cfalbert" <calbert@hslboxmaster.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Pale Fire/Borges Linked to P
>
> Michael Wood identifies Borges' "Pierre Menard, Author of the Quixote" as
an
> model for PF.......
>
> Found an affordable anthology at the local Borders......
>
> It opens as follows:
>
> "The visible oeuvre left by this novelist can be easily and briefly
> enumerated; unpardonable, therefore, are the omissions and additions
> perpetrated by Mme. Henri Bachelier in a decietful catalog that a certain
> newspaper, whose Protestant leanings are surely no secret, had been so
> inconsiderate as to inflict upon that newspaper's deplorable readers -
few
> and Calvinist (if not Masonic and circumcised) though they may be.
Menard's
> true friends have greeted that catalog with alarm, and even with a degree
> of sadness. One might note that only yesterday were we gathered before his
> marmoreal place of rest, among the dreary cypresses, and already Error is
> attempting to tarnish his bright Memory.........Most decidedly, a brief
> rectification is imperative......"
>
> I seem to recall a COL49 commentator suggesting Borges' The Aleph as
> Pynchon's model.......
>
> love,
> cfa
>
>
>
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> To: <pynchon-l@waste.org>
> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 12:40 PM
> Subject: RE: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
>
>
> > Does Marcel ever get to the point where he writes it? Can't remember.
I
> > suppose the definition might be extended to include all Kunstlerroman.
> > (Interesting angle: _Pale Fire_ as Kunstlerroman.... -- a bit of a
stretch
> > certainly.)
> >
> > See 162 for Kinbote's rant on Proust.
> >
> > akaJasperFidget
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-pynchon-l@waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l@waste.org] On
> > > Behalf Of Paul Mackin
> > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 12:08 PM
> > > To: pynchon-l@waste.org
> > > Subject: Re: NPPF - Preliminary - Pale Fire
> > >
> > > On Mon, 2003-07-07 at 09:47, Jasper Fidget wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _Pale Fire_ is an "involuted" (or "self-reflexive") novel -- a novel
> > > that
> > > > contains the details concerning its own origin or composition. An
> > > > antecedent is Andre Gide's _The Counterfeiters_ (1926) which is a
> diary
> > > kept
> > > > by a novelist about a work-in-progress called _The Counterfeiters_
> > > (followed
> > > > in the same year by Gide's _Journal of The Counterfeiters_, the
> journal
> > > he'd
> > > > kept while writing the novel _The Counterfeiters_). There's at
least
> > > one
> > > > reference to Gide in _Pale Fire_. Another example of an involuted
> > > novel:
> > > > Raymond Queneau's _Les Enfants du Limon_ (1938). Anyone got more?
> > >
> > > Strange word involuted. Shade uses involute in Canto Three.
> > >
> > > No sound,/No furtive light came from their involute/Abode,
> > >
> > > Isn't A la recherche du temps perdu a reflexive novel
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > P.
> > >
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of pynchon-l-digest V2 #3383
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