Subject
Fw: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3454 Pale Fire Canto 2
From
Date
Body
----- Original Message -----
From: "pynchon-l-digest" <owner-pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
To: <pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 8:11 PM
Subject: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3454
> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:01:53 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: NPPF - from the N-list
>
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Carolyn Kunin" <chaiselongue@earthlink.net>
> >
> > I don't know if it's possible to retract glue (messy, for sure) but I
have to
> say that I was mislead by a clever cut and paste job by Keith. When I
returned
> to look at the text of the black out scene in Pale Fire, it turned
> > out to have been reverse-Bowdlerized by the way it was presented.
> >
> > And I do think mucilage is probably the correct interpretation of fishy
honey
> paste.
> >
> > Silly me,
> > Carolyn
> >
>
> __________________________________
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:08:51 -0700
> From: Mary Krimmel <mary@krimmel.net>
> Subject: NPPF - Canto One and Two notes
>
> At 10:59 AM 7/29/03 -0400, Jasper Fidget wrote:
>
> >Incidentally, juvenile cicadas are called "nymphs", and burrow
underground
> >for usually 13 or 17 years (depends on species, but always tends to be a
> >primary number for some reason), then lives only 2-6 weeks as an adult.
>
> You mean prime number, I think. I have read that the "survival of the
> fittest" evolution theories see 13, 17 etc. cycles as clear evidence of
> selection to confound enemies who are on more conventional cycles such as
2
> or 4 years. With no other theory in sight, this makes sense to me.
>
> Re previous notes (Canto One):
>
> Some one asked and I think that no one answered whether cod-liver oil
> tastes fishy. It does.
>
> And I believe that someone misunderstood Aunt Maud's interest in the next
> babe's cry. To me the next babe's cry is evidence of the successful
> delivery of another healthy baby, a joyful occasion that can bring a
thrill
> to a spinster as well as to a labor-spent mother (or father!).
>
> The notes on this list are all interesting and helpful to me, a newcomer
> and first-time reader of Vineland.
>
> Mary Krimmel
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:01:56 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Michael Joseph <mjoseph@rci.rutgers.edu>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Canto 1 Incest Motif
>
> On Tue, 29 Jul 2003, s~Z wrote:
> >
> > My reading has nothing to do with Freud,
>
> I thought you were pointing through your quotation at VN's use of the term
> "uncanny," and it made sense that as you were analyzing the poem with the
> thought that it possessed a central secret and that secret was incest, you
> would be drawing on Freud, one way or the other, either to explain
> Nabokov's incest gambit or to rat out the meanings of incest.
>
> Although I'm persuaded against the incest argument, I'm not persuaded
> there aren't clues pointing toward it. I agree that, since Kinbote is
> apparently a pedophile, it would be interesting to see Shade as an abused
> child - which is different from incest, of course. Kinbote <> Shade would
> constitute the binary: literary admirer/abuser of innocence ..> admired
> poet/abused innocent, and Kinbote's various pursuits would take on an
> additional quality of menace.
>
>
> > and I read the quote
> > through my hypothesis that ADA has clues for interpreting PF.
> > I.e., seeing ADA as the dot-arrow pointing back to PF.
> >
>
> I see the mysterious backward foot-print as Shade's symbol of the present,
> which moves into the future but points back to the past, and the parallel
> operations of the poem. (Of course, it could be other things, too. We know
> it's a pheasant, so at least it can't be a wild goose.)
>
>
> > "Learn to distinguish banality. Remember that mediocrity thrives on
'ideas.'
> > Beware of the modish message. Ask yourself if the symbol you have
detected
> > is not your own footprint. Ignore allegories. By all means place the
'how'
> > above the 'what' but do not let it be confused with the 'so what.' Rely
on
> > the sudden erection of your small dorsal hairs. Do not drag in Freud at
this
> > point. All the rest depends on personal talent." - Vladimir Nabokov
> >
>
> Devilish advice!
>
> Michael
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 20:10:59 +0100
> From: "James Kyllo" <jkyllo@clara.net>
> Subject: NPPF Canto 2 porcupines
>
> that Flemish hell with porcupines (line 226) is probably Bosch's "Garden
of
> Earthly Delights".
> http://www.masters-of-photography.com/artchive/b/bosch/delightc.jpg See a
> porcupine in a bubble about half way down, and one third left to right.
>
> James
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:11:03 -0400
> From: Terrance <lycidas2@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: VLVL2 Zoyd's work
>
> http://www.leeds.ac.uk/disability-studies/book2.htm
>
> ------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:23:30 -0400
> From: "cfalbert" <calbert@hslboxmaster.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Canto 1 Incest Motif
>
> Does anyone have access to Nab's lectures on Quixote?
>
> If so, please check what he has to say about Lady Belerma and get back to
> us...
>
>
> thanks,
>
> love,
> cfa
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Joseph" <mjoseph@rci.rutgers.edu>
> To: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Cc: "Pynchon-L" <pynchon-l@waste.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 3:01 PM
> Subject: Re: NPPF Canto 1 Incest Motif
>
>
> >
> > On Tue, 29 Jul 2003, s~Z wrote:
> > >
> > > My reading has nothing to do with Freud,
> >
> > I thought you were pointing through your quotation at VN's use of the
term
> > "uncanny," and it made sense that as you were analyzing the poem with
the
> > thought that it possessed a central secret and that secret was incest,
you
> > would be drawing on Freud, one way or the other, either to explain
> > Nabokov's incest gambit or to rat out the meanings of incest.
> >
> > Although I'm persuaded against the incest argument, I'm not persuaded
> > there aren't clues pointing toward it. I agree that, since Kinbote is
> > apparently a pedophile, it would be interesting to see Shade as an
abused
> > child - which is different from incest, of course. Kinbote <> Shade
would
> > constitute the binary: literary admirer/abuser of innocence ..> admired
> > poet/abused innocent, and Kinbote's various pursuits would take on an
> > additional quality of menace.
> >
> >
> > > and I read the quote
> > > through my hypothesis that ADA has clues for interpreting PF.
> > > I.e., seeing ADA as the dot-arrow pointing back to PF.
> > >
> >
> > I see the mysterious backward foot-print as Shade's symbol of the
present,
> > which moves into the future but points back to the past, and the
parallel
> > operations of the poem. (Of course, it could be other things, too. We
know
> > it's a pheasant, so at least it can't be a wild goose.)
> >
> >
> > > "Learn to distinguish banality. Remember that mediocrity thrives on
> 'ideas.'
> > > Beware of the modish message. Ask yourself if the symbol you have
> detected
> > > is not your own footprint. Ignore allegories. By all means place the
> 'how'
> > > above the 'what' but do not let it be confused with the 'so what.'
Rely
> on
> > > the sudden erection of your small dorsal hairs. Do not drag in Freud
at
> this
> > > point. All the rest depends on personal talent." - Vladimir Nabokov
> > >
> >
> > Devilish advice!
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:24:45 -0700
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Canto 1 Incest Motif
>
> >>>Although I'm persuaded against the incest argument, I'm not persuaded
> there aren't clues pointing toward it.<<<
>
> Such as the 'dire cloudlet' of 'incest.'
>
> iridule = iridescent cloudlet
>
> And the first and last pages of Thoroughly Maud-ern Eve's scrapbook,
> including the clippings from Life magazine regarding Talon Trouser
Fasteners
> and Hanes Fig Leaf Briefs.
>
> The latter 'shows a modern Eve worshipfully peeping from behind a potted
> tree of knowledge at a leering *young* Adam in rather ordinary but clean
> underwear, with the front of his advertised brief conspicuously and
> compactly *shade*d, and the inscription reads: Nothing beats a fig leaf.'
> [emphasis mine] (PF, p.115)
>
> Pale Fire is a Rape File.
>
> ------------------------------
!
>
>> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:48:31 -0700
> From: "Glenn Scheper" <glenn_scheper@earthlink.net>
> Subject: NPPF Canto two - scarf skin as German Scharfsinn: perspicacity.
>
> I've been hugging this nugget awaiting this canto to come.
> Compare it's location as mental function to a nimbus, halo.
>
> http://flag.blackened.net/daver/anarchism/stirner/theego1.html
> _Max Stirner - THE EGO AND HIS OWN - Chapter 1_
>
> Thus the ancients mounted to spirit, and strove to become
> spiritual. But a man who wishes to be active as spirit is
> drawn to quite other tasks than he was able to set himself
> formerly: to tasks which really give something to do to the
> spirit and not to mere sense or acuteness,* which exerts
> itself only to become master of things. The spirit busies
> itself solely about the spiritual, and seeks out the "traces
> of mind" in everything; to the believing spirit "everything
> comes from God," and interests him only to the extent that
> it reveals this origin; to the philosophic spirit everything
> appears with the stamp of reason, and interests him only so
> far as he is able to discover in it reason, i. e., spiritual
> content.
>
> *Italicized in the original for the sake of its etymology,
> Scharfsinn -- "sharp-sense". Compare next paragraph.
>
> Not the spirit, then, which has to do with absolutely
> nothing unspiritual, with no thing, but only with the
> essence which exists behind and above things, with thoughts
> -- not that did the ancients exert, for they did not yet
> have it; no, they had only reached the point of struggling
> and longing for it, and therefore sharpened it against their
> too-powerful foe, the world of sense (but what would not
> have been sensuous for them, since Jehovah or the gods of
> the heathen were yet far removed from the conception "God is
> spirit," since the "heavenly fatherland" had not yet stepped
> into the place of the sensuous, etc.?) -- they sharpened
> against the world of sense their sense, their acuteness. To
> this day the Jews, those precocious children of antiquity,
> have got no farther; and with all the subtlety and strength
> of their prudence and understanding, which easily becomes
> master of things and forces them to obey it, they cannot
> discover spirit, which takes no account whatever of things.
>
> ---
>
> Max Stirner (1806-1856) was a pre-Nietzsche individualist,
> anticipating D&G's Anti-OEdipus, w/o psychological jargon:
>
> http://www.nonserviam.com/stirner/reviews/schiereck.html
> Max Stirner's Egoism and Nihilism
> stirner paterson man world egoism god spirit egoist himself religion
> because philosophy human freedom thinking just einzige love idea
>
> http://www.blancmange.net/tmh/articles/carlson.html
> Philosophical Egoism: Max Stirner
> stirner state marx because individual book union social man law
> rebellion himself nothing einzige men egoists revolution writings
>
> http://fr.encyclopedia.yahoo.com/articles/s/s0006109_p0.html
> Yahoo! Encyclopedie - Max Stirner
> stirner est propriete unique par son tous cette dialectique max
> vous leur rien vie ainsi hommes marx suis uvre annees association
>
> http://www.lsr-projekt.de/poly/eninnuce.html
> Max Stirner, a durable dissident - in a nutshell
> stirner marx nietzsche enlightenment einzige max criticism thought
> feuerbach however book ego philosophy repression because ideas
>
> http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/1931/secG6.html
> G.6 What are the ideas of Max Stirner?
> stirner property ibid state society because egoists individual
> ego individuals based private association egoist labour social
>
> ---
>
> http://www.globalart.net/karnernew_main.htm
> UNSCHULD 128x116cm SCHARFSINN 116x128cm DAS STOLZE
> The pictures "Scharfsinn" and "Glorious Autumn" are made
> with keys on metal.
>
> ---
>
> http://www.rubedo.psc.br/artigosb/sincwitz.htm
> _Rubedo - Artigos - SINCRONICIDADE E WITZ por Fernando Cavalheiro_
> ituosidade, perspicacia (Scharfsinn em alemao), como tambem
>
> ---
>
> http://www.1wad.de/archive.def.php4?id=450
> One-Word-A-Day
>
> acumen
>
> (A-kyoo-men)
>
> Definition:
>
> cleverness, skill, good judgement
>
> German translation:
>
> der Scharfsinn, der Geschaftsverstand, unternehmerischer
> Scharfsinn
>
> Did you know? Acumen is Latin for sharpness from acuere, to
> sharpen. It means quickness of perception or discernment;
> penetration of mind; the faculty of nice discrimination.
>
> Synonyms: Sharpness; sagacity; keenness; shrewdness;
> acuteness.
>
> Yours truly,
> Glenn Scheper
> http://home.earthlink.net/~glenn_scheper/
> glenn_scheper + at + earthlink.net
> Copyleft(!) Forward freely.
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:12:43 -0700
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Canto 1 Incest Motif
>
> grimalkin - 1630, name given to a cat, hence any cat, especially an old
> she-cat; from gray + Malkin, dim. of fem. proper name Matilda or Maud.
>
> Gray + Maud = cat
>
> I know this is ludicrous, but there's just no accounting for taste.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:15:12 -0700
> From: "Glenn Scheper" <glenn_scheper@earthlink.net>
> Subject: NPPF Canto two - ln 500 - crackling, gulping swamp
>
> > ln 500: "Into a crackling, gulping swamp, and sank."
>
> Synchronicity works for me: I was thumbing through my
> new English <-> Russian dictionary weeks ago, and saw
> that crackling and chirping are possible translations
> of Russian Treststanie. (Three pillars and a tail=stst?)
>
> That makes a coincidence of oral functions with gulping;
> and a bird reference, which to me suggests AF reference.
> There is also an allusion to schizophrenia in splitting.
>
> ---
>
> Treststanie n 1, cracking, crackling. 2, chirping.
> 3, chattering.
>
> Treststat v. impfv 1. to crack. 2, to crackle. 3, to chirp.
> 4, to ring loudly; make a racket. 5, colloq. to chatter.
> 6, colloq. (of one's head) to be splitting. 7, fig. to be on
> the verge of collapse.
>
> Treststina n 1, crack; split. Dat treststuny, to crack.
> 2, fissure. 3, fig. rift, split; breach.
>
> Treststotka n 1, rattle (for making a noise). 2, colloq.
> chatterbox
>
> Yours truly,
> Glenn Scheper
> http://home.earthlink.net/~glenn_scheper/
> glenn_scheper + at + earthlink.net
> Copyleft(!) Forward freely.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:34:49 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Canto two - ln 500 - crackling, gulping swamp
>
> - --- Glenn Scheper <glenn_scheper@earthlink.net> wrote:
> [...]> That makes a coincidence of oral functions with gulping; and a bird
> reference, which to me suggests AF reference.
>
> What DOESN"T suggest AF for you (and incest for s~Z)?
>
> David Morris :)
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:58:50 -0700
> From: "Glenn Scheper" <glenn_scheper@earthlink.net>
> Subject: RE: NPPF Canto two - ln 500 - crackling, gulping swamp
>
> Extraordinary claims require extraordinary persistence.
>
> Yours truly,
> Glenn Scheper
> http://home.earthlink.net/~glenn_scheper/
> glenn_scheper + at + earthlink.net
> Copyleft(!) Forward freely.
>
> - -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pynchon-l@waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l@waste.org] On
> Behalf Of David Morris
> Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 1:35 PM
> To: glenn_scheper@earthlink.net; pynchon-l@waste.org
> Subject: Re: NPPF Canto two - ln 500 - crackling, gulping swamp
>
>
>
> - --- Glenn Scheper <glenn_scheper@earthlink.net> wrote:
> [...]> That makes a coincidence of oral functions with gulping; and a
> bird
> reference, which to me suggests AF reference.
>
> What DOESN"T suggest AF for you (and incest for s~Z)?
>
> David Morris :)
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 06:55:13 +1000
> From: jbor <jbor@bigpond.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Golden Paste
>
> >> --- "D. Barton Johnson" <chtodel@cox.net> wrote:
> >>> EDNOTE. "How fully I fdelt nature glued to me /
> >>> And how my childish palate loved the taste /
> >>> Half-fish, half-honey of that golden paste! / My
> >>> picture book was at an early age.
> >>> ------------------
> >>> I believe the golden paste is simply the glue that was called mucilage
that
> > used to be common in school rooms and used by kids at home through most
of
> > this
> > century and probably the last for pasting together their art junk.
> >>>
> >>> It came in a bottle with a reddish rubber sort of a nipple that you
rubbed
> > on whatever surface you were going to stick something to, say, a photo
snipped
> > from Life magazine into a scrap book.
> >>>
> >>> I would bet almost every kid who used this stuff tasted it at some
time.
>
> If the paste (Elmer's glue, was it? -- we used Clag, which was white and
had
> the consistency of milky porridge, or another sort of glue which was clear
> and quite runny) was a golden colour, and if it had the conspicuous taste
> Shade recalls, then this would seem a logical and reasonable suggestion.
>
> best
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 17:08:59 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: RE: NPPF - Canto One and Two notes
>
> Mary Krimmel wrote:
> >
> > At 10:59 AM 7/29/03 -0400, Jasper Fidget wrote:
> >
> > >Incidentally, juvenile cicadas are called "nymphs", and burrow
> > underground
> > >for usually 13 or 17 years (depends on species, but always tends to be
a
> > >primary number for some reason), then lives only 2-6 weeks as an adult.
> >
> > You mean prime number, I think. I have read that the "survival of the
> > fittest" evolution theories see 13, 17 etc. cycles as clear evidence of
> > selection to confound enemies who are on more conventional cycles such
as
> > 2
> > or 4 years. With no other theory in sight, this makes sense to me.
>
> Thank you, yes I meant *prime* number. It's an interesting idea (and
> there's some Nabokovian poetry to 13 year nymphets dodging the clutches of
> Humberts shown up a year premature), but I have to wonder -- what makes 2
or
> 4 more conventional than 3 or 5? Is this somehow an extension of
bilateral
> symmetry?
>
> Jasper
>
> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 16:35:45 -0500
> From: "Tim Strzechowski" <dedalus204@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Canto 1 Incest Motif
>
> Forgive me if this has been mentioned already, but isn't Grimalkin also
the
> name of one of the Weird Sisters in _Macbeth_?
>
> I seem to recall one of the sisters referring to another by that name,
> although the stage directions always refer to them as "witch."
>
> Tim
>
>
> > grimalkin - 1630, name given to a cat, hence any cat, especially an old
> > she-cat; from gray + Malkin, dim. of fem. proper name Matilda or Maud.
> >
> > Gray + Maud = cat
> >
> > I know this is ludicrous, but there's just no accounting for taste.
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 14:36:32 -0700 (PDT)
> From: slothenvypride <slothenvypride7@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Canto two - ln 500 - crackling, gulping swamp
>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 20:50:25 -0400
> From: "Scott Badger" <lupine@ncia.net>
> Subject: RE: NPPF - Canto Two Notes (2)
>
> David:
> > 370: ⌠Grim Pen■
> > Prison cell? Also a swamp/bog (where hazel ends up): see
> > Jasper▓s earlier
> > note.
>
> As well, the fountain of this dark poem...
>
> Scott Badger
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 19:50:47 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Canto 1 Incest Motif
>
> I commend your tenacity, and I admit I'm moved by some of your points,
> especially that his spells are so regular for one winter. Does he tell us
how
> old he was when these spells happened? My theory is that they might
happen
> when he hopes Hazel might become a nymphet, maybe continuing for a long
time
> after he starts to abuse her. His madness might blossom after she commits
> suicide. His madness (Ada might in fact be informative here) is the
result of
> his daughter's suicide post his longtime abuse of her.
>
> > Gray + Maud = cat
> >
> > I know this is ludicrous, but there's just no accounting for taste.
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 19:55:29 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: NPPF - Scarf Skin
>
> "Empty Emerald Case, Scarf-Skin, Leaf-Scarsophagus" - These are all
shed/dead
> skins, shed shells, empty ghosts, shades...
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 20:10:33 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: NPPF - Maud
>
> She is a lesbian (as I've said too many times). Kinbote's take on her is
> unusual for a female. He gives her grudging respect, suggesting her
> homosexuality, calling her "far from spinsterish" and with an "extrvagant
and
> sardonic turn of mind" (like he might wish we would suggest he has). Her
> collection of *Life* photo ads are very funny and sexual in a way that
Andy
> Whore-Hall might have liked. The last lines of the comment to line 91 is
> obscure: Does he think Maud is Satan's small ugly psuedo-nymph? No. I
think
> he means the Ad-Guys on Madison Ave.
>
> David Morris
>
From: "pynchon-l-digest" <owner-pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
To: <pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 8:11 PM
Subject: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3454
> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:01:53 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: NPPF - from the N-list
>
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Carolyn Kunin" <chaiselongue@earthlink.net>
> >
> > I don't know if it's possible to retract glue (messy, for sure) but I
have to
> say that I was mislead by a clever cut and paste job by Keith. When I
returned
> to look at the text of the black out scene in Pale Fire, it turned
> > out to have been reverse-Bowdlerized by the way it was presented.
> >
> > And I do think mucilage is probably the correct interpretation of fishy
honey
> paste.
> >
> > Silly me,
> > Carolyn
> >
>
> __________________________________
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:08:51 -0700
> From: Mary Krimmel <mary@krimmel.net>
> Subject: NPPF - Canto One and Two notes
>
> At 10:59 AM 7/29/03 -0400, Jasper Fidget wrote:
>
> >Incidentally, juvenile cicadas are called "nymphs", and burrow
underground
> >for usually 13 or 17 years (depends on species, but always tends to be a
> >primary number for some reason), then lives only 2-6 weeks as an adult.
>
> You mean prime number, I think. I have read that the "survival of the
> fittest" evolution theories see 13, 17 etc. cycles as clear evidence of
> selection to confound enemies who are on more conventional cycles such as
2
> or 4 years. With no other theory in sight, this makes sense to me.
>
> Re previous notes (Canto One):
>
> Some one asked and I think that no one answered whether cod-liver oil
> tastes fishy. It does.
>
> And I believe that someone misunderstood Aunt Maud's interest in the next
> babe's cry. To me the next babe's cry is evidence of the successful
> delivery of another healthy baby, a joyful occasion that can bring a
thrill
> to a spinster as well as to a labor-spent mother (or father!).
>
> The notes on this list are all interesting and helpful to me, a newcomer
> and first-time reader of Vineland.
>
> Mary Krimmel
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:01:56 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Michael Joseph <mjoseph@rci.rutgers.edu>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Canto 1 Incest Motif
>
> On Tue, 29 Jul 2003, s~Z wrote:
> >
> > My reading has nothing to do with Freud,
>
> I thought you were pointing through your quotation at VN's use of the term
> "uncanny," and it made sense that as you were analyzing the poem with the
> thought that it possessed a central secret and that secret was incest, you
> would be drawing on Freud, one way or the other, either to explain
> Nabokov's incest gambit or to rat out the meanings of incest.
>
> Although I'm persuaded against the incest argument, I'm not persuaded
> there aren't clues pointing toward it. I agree that, since Kinbote is
> apparently a pedophile, it would be interesting to see Shade as an abused
> child - which is different from incest, of course. Kinbote <> Shade would
> constitute the binary: literary admirer/abuser of innocence ..> admired
> poet/abused innocent, and Kinbote's various pursuits would take on an
> additional quality of menace.
>
>
> > and I read the quote
> > through my hypothesis that ADA has clues for interpreting PF.
> > I.e., seeing ADA as the dot-arrow pointing back to PF.
> >
>
> I see the mysterious backward foot-print as Shade's symbol of the present,
> which moves into the future but points back to the past, and the parallel
> operations of the poem. (Of course, it could be other things, too. We know
> it's a pheasant, so at least it can't be a wild goose.)
>
>
> > "Learn to distinguish banality. Remember that mediocrity thrives on
'ideas.'
> > Beware of the modish message. Ask yourself if the symbol you have
detected
> > is not your own footprint. Ignore allegories. By all means place the
'how'
> > above the 'what' but do not let it be confused with the 'so what.' Rely
on
> > the sudden erection of your small dorsal hairs. Do not drag in Freud at
this
> > point. All the rest depends on personal talent." - Vladimir Nabokov
> >
>
> Devilish advice!
>
> Michael
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 20:10:59 +0100
> From: "James Kyllo" <jkyllo@clara.net>
> Subject: NPPF Canto 2 porcupines
>
> that Flemish hell with porcupines (line 226) is probably Bosch's "Garden
of
> Earthly Delights".
> http://www.masters-of-photography.com/artchive/b/bosch/delightc.jpg See a
> porcupine in a bubble about half way down, and one third left to right.
>
> James
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:11:03 -0400
> From: Terrance <lycidas2@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: VLVL2 Zoyd's work
>
> http://www.leeds.ac.uk/disability-studies/book2.htm
>
> ------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:23:30 -0400
> From: "cfalbert" <calbert@hslboxmaster.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Canto 1 Incest Motif
>
> Does anyone have access to Nab's lectures on Quixote?
>
> If so, please check what he has to say about Lady Belerma and get back to
> us...
>
>
> thanks,
>
> love,
> cfa
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Joseph" <mjoseph@rci.rutgers.edu>
> To: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Cc: "Pynchon-L" <pynchon-l@waste.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 3:01 PM
> Subject: Re: NPPF Canto 1 Incest Motif
>
>
> >
> > On Tue, 29 Jul 2003, s~Z wrote:
> > >
> > > My reading has nothing to do with Freud,
> >
> > I thought you were pointing through your quotation at VN's use of the
term
> > "uncanny," and it made sense that as you were analyzing the poem with
the
> > thought that it possessed a central secret and that secret was incest,
you
> > would be drawing on Freud, one way or the other, either to explain
> > Nabokov's incest gambit or to rat out the meanings of incest.
> >
> > Although I'm persuaded against the incest argument, I'm not persuaded
> > there aren't clues pointing toward it. I agree that, since Kinbote is
> > apparently a pedophile, it would be interesting to see Shade as an
abused
> > child - which is different from incest, of course. Kinbote <> Shade
would
> > constitute the binary: literary admirer/abuser of innocence ..> admired
> > poet/abused innocent, and Kinbote's various pursuits would take on an
> > additional quality of menace.
> >
> >
> > > and I read the quote
> > > through my hypothesis that ADA has clues for interpreting PF.
> > > I.e., seeing ADA as the dot-arrow pointing back to PF.
> > >
> >
> > I see the mysterious backward foot-print as Shade's symbol of the
present,
> > which moves into the future but points back to the past, and the
parallel
> > operations of the poem. (Of course, it could be other things, too. We
know
> > it's a pheasant, so at least it can't be a wild goose.)
> >
> >
> > > "Learn to distinguish banality. Remember that mediocrity thrives on
> 'ideas.'
> > > Beware of the modish message. Ask yourself if the symbol you have
> detected
> > > is not your own footprint. Ignore allegories. By all means place the
> 'how'
> > > above the 'what' but do not let it be confused with the 'so what.'
Rely
> on
> > > the sudden erection of your small dorsal hairs. Do not drag in Freud
at
> this
> > > point. All the rest depends on personal talent." - Vladimir Nabokov
> > >
> >
> > Devilish advice!
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:24:45 -0700
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Canto 1 Incest Motif
>
> >>>Although I'm persuaded against the incest argument, I'm not persuaded
> there aren't clues pointing toward it.<<<
>
> Such as the 'dire cloudlet' of 'incest.'
>
> iridule = iridescent cloudlet
>
> And the first and last pages of Thoroughly Maud-ern Eve's scrapbook,
> including the clippings from Life magazine regarding Talon Trouser
Fasteners
> and Hanes Fig Leaf Briefs.
>
> The latter 'shows a modern Eve worshipfully peeping from behind a potted
> tree of knowledge at a leering *young* Adam in rather ordinary but clean
> underwear, with the front of his advertised brief conspicuously and
> compactly *shade*d, and the inscription reads: Nothing beats a fig leaf.'
> [emphasis mine] (PF, p.115)
>
> Pale Fire is a Rape File.
>
> ------------------------------
!
>
>> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:48:31 -0700
> From: "Glenn Scheper" <glenn_scheper@earthlink.net>
> Subject: NPPF Canto two - scarf skin as German Scharfsinn: perspicacity.
>
> I've been hugging this nugget awaiting this canto to come.
> Compare it's location as mental function to a nimbus, halo.
>
> http://flag.blackened.net/daver/anarchism/stirner/theego1.html
> _Max Stirner - THE EGO AND HIS OWN - Chapter 1_
>
> Thus the ancients mounted to spirit, and strove to become
> spiritual. But a man who wishes to be active as spirit is
> drawn to quite other tasks than he was able to set himself
> formerly: to tasks which really give something to do to the
> spirit and not to mere sense or acuteness,* which exerts
> itself only to become master of things. The spirit busies
> itself solely about the spiritual, and seeks out the "traces
> of mind" in everything; to the believing spirit "everything
> comes from God," and interests him only to the extent that
> it reveals this origin; to the philosophic spirit everything
> appears with the stamp of reason, and interests him only so
> far as he is able to discover in it reason, i. e., spiritual
> content.
>
> *Italicized in the original for the sake of its etymology,
> Scharfsinn -- "sharp-sense". Compare next paragraph.
>
> Not the spirit, then, which has to do with absolutely
> nothing unspiritual, with no thing, but only with the
> essence which exists behind and above things, with thoughts
> -- not that did the ancients exert, for they did not yet
> have it; no, they had only reached the point of struggling
> and longing for it, and therefore sharpened it against their
> too-powerful foe, the world of sense (but what would not
> have been sensuous for them, since Jehovah or the gods of
> the heathen were yet far removed from the conception "God is
> spirit," since the "heavenly fatherland" had not yet stepped
> into the place of the sensuous, etc.?) -- they sharpened
> against the world of sense their sense, their acuteness. To
> this day the Jews, those precocious children of antiquity,
> have got no farther; and with all the subtlety and strength
> of their prudence and understanding, which easily becomes
> master of things and forces them to obey it, they cannot
> discover spirit, which takes no account whatever of things.
>
> ---
>
> Max Stirner (1806-1856) was a pre-Nietzsche individualist,
> anticipating D&G's Anti-OEdipus, w/o psychological jargon:
>
> http://www.nonserviam.com/stirner/reviews/schiereck.html
> Max Stirner's Egoism and Nihilism
> stirner paterson man world egoism god spirit egoist himself religion
> because philosophy human freedom thinking just einzige love idea
>
> http://www.blancmange.net/tmh/articles/carlson.html
> Philosophical Egoism: Max Stirner
> stirner state marx because individual book union social man law
> rebellion himself nothing einzige men egoists revolution writings
>
> http://fr.encyclopedia.yahoo.com/articles/s/s0006109_p0.html
> Yahoo! Encyclopedie - Max Stirner
> stirner est propriete unique par son tous cette dialectique max
> vous leur rien vie ainsi hommes marx suis uvre annees association
>
> http://www.lsr-projekt.de/poly/eninnuce.html
> Max Stirner, a durable dissident - in a nutshell
> stirner marx nietzsche enlightenment einzige max criticism thought
> feuerbach however book ego philosophy repression because ideas
>
> http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/1931/secG6.html
> G.6 What are the ideas of Max Stirner?
> stirner property ibid state society because egoists individual
> ego individuals based private association egoist labour social
>
> ---
>
> http://www.globalart.net/karnernew_main.htm
> UNSCHULD 128x116cm SCHARFSINN 116x128cm DAS STOLZE
> The pictures "Scharfsinn" and "Glorious Autumn" are made
> with keys on metal.
>
> ---
>
> http://www.rubedo.psc.br/artigosb/sincwitz.htm
> _Rubedo - Artigos - SINCRONICIDADE E WITZ por Fernando Cavalheiro_
> ituosidade, perspicacia (Scharfsinn em alemao), como tambem
>
> ---
>
> http://www.1wad.de/archive.def.php4?id=450
> One-Word-A-Day
>
> acumen
>
> (A-kyoo-men)
>
> Definition:
>
> cleverness, skill, good judgement
>
> German translation:
>
> der Scharfsinn, der Geschaftsverstand, unternehmerischer
> Scharfsinn
>
> Did you know? Acumen is Latin for sharpness from acuere, to
> sharpen. It means quickness of perception or discernment;
> penetration of mind; the faculty of nice discrimination.
>
> Synonyms: Sharpness; sagacity; keenness; shrewdness;
> acuteness.
>
> Yours truly,
> Glenn Scheper
> http://home.earthlink.net/~glenn_scheper/
> glenn_scheper + at + earthlink.net
> Copyleft(!) Forward freely.
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:12:43 -0700
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Canto 1 Incest Motif
>
> grimalkin - 1630, name given to a cat, hence any cat, especially an old
> she-cat; from gray + Malkin, dim. of fem. proper name Matilda or Maud.
>
> Gray + Maud = cat
>
> I know this is ludicrous, but there's just no accounting for taste.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:15:12 -0700
> From: "Glenn Scheper" <glenn_scheper@earthlink.net>
> Subject: NPPF Canto two - ln 500 - crackling, gulping swamp
>
> > ln 500: "Into a crackling, gulping swamp, and sank."
>
> Synchronicity works for me: I was thumbing through my
> new English <-> Russian dictionary weeks ago, and saw
> that crackling and chirping are possible translations
> of Russian Treststanie. (Three pillars and a tail=stst?)
>
> That makes a coincidence of oral functions with gulping;
> and a bird reference, which to me suggests AF reference.
> There is also an allusion to schizophrenia in splitting.
>
> ---
>
> Treststanie n 1, cracking, crackling. 2, chirping.
> 3, chattering.
>
> Treststat v. impfv 1. to crack. 2, to crackle. 3, to chirp.
> 4, to ring loudly; make a racket. 5, colloq. to chatter.
> 6, colloq. (of one's head) to be splitting. 7, fig. to be on
> the verge of collapse.
>
> Treststina n 1, crack; split. Dat treststuny, to crack.
> 2, fissure. 3, fig. rift, split; breach.
>
> Treststotka n 1, rattle (for making a noise). 2, colloq.
> chatterbox
>
> Yours truly,
> Glenn Scheper
> http://home.earthlink.net/~glenn_scheper/
> glenn_scheper + at + earthlink.net
> Copyleft(!) Forward freely.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:34:49 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Canto two - ln 500 - crackling, gulping swamp
>
> - --- Glenn Scheper <glenn_scheper@earthlink.net> wrote:
> [...]> That makes a coincidence of oral functions with gulping; and a bird
> reference, which to me suggests AF reference.
>
> What DOESN"T suggest AF for you (and incest for s~Z)?
>
> David Morris :)
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:58:50 -0700
> From: "Glenn Scheper" <glenn_scheper@earthlink.net>
> Subject: RE: NPPF Canto two - ln 500 - crackling, gulping swamp
>
> Extraordinary claims require extraordinary persistence.
>
> Yours truly,
> Glenn Scheper
> http://home.earthlink.net/~glenn_scheper/
> glenn_scheper + at + earthlink.net
> Copyleft(!) Forward freely.
>
> - -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pynchon-l@waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l@waste.org] On
> Behalf Of David Morris
> Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 1:35 PM
> To: glenn_scheper@earthlink.net; pynchon-l@waste.org
> Subject: Re: NPPF Canto two - ln 500 - crackling, gulping swamp
>
>
>
> - --- Glenn Scheper <glenn_scheper@earthlink.net> wrote:
> [...]> That makes a coincidence of oral functions with gulping; and a
> bird
> reference, which to me suggests AF reference.
>
> What DOESN"T suggest AF for you (and incest for s~Z)?
>
> David Morris :)
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 06:55:13 +1000
> From: jbor <jbor@bigpond.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - Golden Paste
>
> >> --- "D. Barton Johnson" <chtodel@cox.net> wrote:
> >>> EDNOTE. "How fully I fdelt nature glued to me /
> >>> And how my childish palate loved the taste /
> >>> Half-fish, half-honey of that golden paste! / My
> >>> picture book was at an early age.
> >>> ------------------
> >>> I believe the golden paste is simply the glue that was called mucilage
that
> > used to be common in school rooms and used by kids at home through most
of
> > this
> > century and probably the last for pasting together their art junk.
> >>>
> >>> It came in a bottle with a reddish rubber sort of a nipple that you
rubbed
> > on whatever surface you were going to stick something to, say, a photo
snipped
> > from Life magazine into a scrap book.
> >>>
> >>> I would bet almost every kid who used this stuff tasted it at some
time.
>
> If the paste (Elmer's glue, was it? -- we used Clag, which was white and
had
> the consistency of milky porridge, or another sort of glue which was clear
> and quite runny) was a golden colour, and if it had the conspicuous taste
> Shade recalls, then this would seem a logical and reasonable suggestion.
>
> best
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 17:08:59 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: RE: NPPF - Canto One and Two notes
>
> Mary Krimmel wrote:
> >
> > At 10:59 AM 7/29/03 -0400, Jasper Fidget wrote:
> >
> > >Incidentally, juvenile cicadas are called "nymphs", and burrow
> > underground
> > >for usually 13 or 17 years (depends on species, but always tends to be
a
> > >primary number for some reason), then lives only 2-6 weeks as an adult.
> >
> > You mean prime number, I think. I have read that the "survival of the
> > fittest" evolution theories see 13, 17 etc. cycles as clear evidence of
> > selection to confound enemies who are on more conventional cycles such
as
> > 2
> > or 4 years. With no other theory in sight, this makes sense to me.
>
> Thank you, yes I meant *prime* number. It's an interesting idea (and
> there's some Nabokovian poetry to 13 year nymphets dodging the clutches of
> Humberts shown up a year premature), but I have to wonder -- what makes 2
or
> 4 more conventional than 3 or 5? Is this somehow an extension of
bilateral
> symmetry?
>
> Jasper
>
> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 16:35:45 -0500
> From: "Tim Strzechowski" <dedalus204@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Canto 1 Incest Motif
>
> Forgive me if this has been mentioned already, but isn't Grimalkin also
the
> name of one of the Weird Sisters in _Macbeth_?
>
> I seem to recall one of the sisters referring to another by that name,
> although the stage directions always refer to them as "witch."
>
> Tim
>
>
> > grimalkin - 1630, name given to a cat, hence any cat, especially an old
> > she-cat; from gray + Malkin, dim. of fem. proper name Matilda or Maud.
> >
> > Gray + Maud = cat
> >
> > I know this is ludicrous, but there's just no accounting for taste.
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 14:36:32 -0700 (PDT)
> From: slothenvypride <slothenvypride7@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Canto two - ln 500 - crackling, gulping swamp
>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 20:50:25 -0400
> From: "Scott Badger" <lupine@ncia.net>
> Subject: RE: NPPF - Canto Two Notes (2)
>
> David:
> > 370: ⌠Grim Pen■
> > Prison cell? Also a swamp/bog (where hazel ends up): see
> > Jasper▓s earlier
> > note.
>
> As well, the fountain of this dark poem...
>
> Scott Badger
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 19:50:47 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Canto 1 Incest Motif
>
> I commend your tenacity, and I admit I'm moved by some of your points,
> especially that his spells are so regular for one winter. Does he tell us
how
> old he was when these spells happened? My theory is that they might
happen
> when he hopes Hazel might become a nymphet, maybe continuing for a long
time
> after he starts to abuse her. His madness might blossom after she commits
> suicide. His madness (Ada might in fact be informative here) is the
result of
> his daughter's suicide post his longtime abuse of her.
>
> > Gray + Maud = cat
> >
> > I know this is ludicrous, but there's just no accounting for taste.
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 19:55:29 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: NPPF - Scarf Skin
>
> "Empty Emerald Case, Scarf-Skin, Leaf-Scarsophagus" - These are all
shed/dead
> skins, shed shells, empty ghosts, shades...
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 20:10:33 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: NPPF - Maud
>
> She is a lesbian (as I've said too many times). Kinbote's take on her is
> unusual for a female. He gives her grudging respect, suggesting her
> homosexuality, calling her "far from spinsterish" and with an "extrvagant
and
> sardonic turn of mind" (like he might wish we would suggest he has). Her
> collection of *Life* photo ads are very funny and sexual in a way that
Andy
> Whore-Hall might have liked. The last lines of the comment to line 91 is
> obscure: Does he think Maud is Satan's small ugly psuedo-nymph? No. I
think
> he means the Ad-Guys on Madison Ave.
>
> David Morris
>