Subject
Pale Fire: Poem 1st / commentary 2
From
Date
Body
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phillip Iannarelli" <iann88us@yahoo.com>
>
> ---------------- Message requiring your approval (213
lines) ------------------
> The poem was completed before the commentary.
>
> Phil Iannarelli
> --- "D. Barton Johnson" <chtodel@cox.net> wrote:
> > EDNOTE. GK prompts me to wonder somehing I should
> > (but don't) know. Boyd may
> > supply the answer. Was the poem composed before,
> > during, or after the
> > "Commentary"?
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Kenny, Glenn" <gkenny@hfmus.com>
> > >
> > > ---------------- Message requiring your approval
> > (164
> > lines) ------------------
> > > The first thing to remember is that, regardless of
> > the illusion that the
> > > poem is a stand-alone work, it most manifestly is
> > not. Kinbote's
> > insistence
> > > that the poem has no existence without the
> > commentary is, in the context
> > of
> > > the novel, a kind of cruelty he inflicts on
> > Shade's shade; but in the
> > > reality outside the novel, it's absolutely true!
> > Add to that the fact that
> > > the poem is a pastiche-"one oozy footprint" behind
> > Frost, but expressing a
> > > sensibility very much in tune with V.N.'s own ("I
> > loathe such things as
> > > jazz," etc.)-and you have something that some
> > might argue is not quite
> > > quantifiable on its own. But let's forget all that
> > for the nonce. I think
> > it
> > > is an often very moving work, with an interesting
> > cinematic quality (i.e.,
> > > the "intercutting" between the Shade's
> > not-quite-channel surfing and
> > Hazel's
> > > journey to death) that isn't evident in the poets
> > that Shade is based
> > on....
> > >
> > > GK
> > >
> > > > ----------
> > > > From: D. Barton Johnson
> > > > Reply To: Vladimir Nabokov Forum
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 11:24 AM
> > > > To: NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU
> > > > Subject: Fw: Fw: Pale Fire, the poem
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Dane Gill" <pennyparkerpark@hotmail.com>
> > > > > ---------------- Message requiring your
> > approval (110
> > > > lines) ------------------
> > > > > Regardless of this I would still enjoyed
> > reading the opions of others
> > > > about
> > > > > the poem's literary value - does Nabokov
> > consider it a work of genius,
> > > > do
> > > > > youthe reader agree? I appreciate what you're
> > saying Beau Shaw, and as
> > > > I've
> > > > > said, my opinion is already formed, however,
> > were there nuances or
> > > > aspects
> > > > > of Pale Fire brought to my attention that has
> > hitherto eluded me, that
> > > > > opinion may change (as it is based on little
> > comparrison to other
> > > > poems).
> > > > > Thank you Dane Gill
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: "D. Barton Johnson" <chtodel@cox.net>
> > > > > >Reply-To: Vladimir Nabokov Forum
> > <NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
> > > > > >To: NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU
> > > > > >Subject: Fw: Pale Fire, the poem
> > > > > >Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 22:08:27 -0700
> > > > > >
> > > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > > >From: "Beau Shaw" <bs499@nyu.edu>
> > > > > >To: "Vladimir Nabokov Forum"
> > <NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
> > > > > >Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 9:34 AM
> > > > > >Subject: Re: Pale Fire, the poem
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > This message was originally submitted by
> > bs499@NYU.EDU to the
> > > > NABOKV-L
> > > > > >list at
> > > > > > > LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU. If you simply forward
> > it back to the list,
> > > > using
> > > > > >a
> > > > > >mail
> > > > > > > command that generates "Resent-" fields
> > (ask your local user
> > support
> > > > or
> > > > > >consult
> > > > > > > the documentation of your mail program if
> > in doubt), it will be
> > > > > >distributed and
> > > > > > > the explanations you are now reading will
> > be removed
> > > > automatically.
> > > > If
> > > > > >on the
> > > > > > > other hand you edit the contributions you
> > receive into a digest,
> > > > you
> > > > > >will
> > > > > >have
> > > > > > > to remove this paragraph manually.
> > Finally, you should be able
> > to
> > > > > >contact the
> > > > > > > author of this message by using the
> > normal "reply" function
> > of
> > > > > >your
> > > > > >mail
> > > > > > > program.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----------------- Message requiring your
> > approval (53
> > > > > >lines) ------------------
> > > > > > > I don't think your opinion of Pale Fire
> > (the poem) should be
> > > > "swayed"
> > > > by
> > > > > >our
> > > > > > > arguments! One does not "appreciate"
> > literature (or anything for
> > > > that
> > > > > > > matter, I suppose) by being instructed
> > that it's good or not.
> > Sapere
> > > > > >aude
> > > > > > > :)Personally, on repeated readings, it
> > strikes me as more and more
> > > > > > > beautiful, and complex. -Beau Shaw
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: D. Barton Johnson <chtodel@cox.net>
> > > > > > > To: <NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
> > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 11:05 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: Fw: Pale Fire, the poem
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > From: "Dane Gill"
> > <pennyparkerpark@hotmail.com>
> > > > > > > > > ----------------- Message requiring
> > your approval (24
> > > > > > > > lines) ------------------
> > > > > > > > > Greetings
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Is the poem in the novel, Pale Fire,
> > supposed to be a
> > > > demonstration
> > > > > >of
> > > > > > > > > poetic genuis? Is the poem itself a
> > represntation of Shade's
> > > > > > > straitforward
> > > > > > > > > style, lacking in genuis, and just
> > another indication of
> > > > Kinbote's
> > > > > > > > madness?
> > > > > > > > > I've discussed this before (not here)
> > to no avail. Basically
> > > > what
> > > > > >I'm
> > > > > > > > asking
> > > > > > > > > is this: Did Nabokov himself think the
> > poem Pale Fire was a
> > work
> > > > of
> > > > > > > > genius?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I've read (references elude me now -
> > but something tells me it
> > > > was
> > > > > >Boyd,
> > > > > > > > > though not sure) that Pale Fire was
> > actually the best poetry
> > > > Nabokov
> > > > > > > could
> > > > > > > > > write. And as said in Strong Opinions,
> > it was the most trouble
> > > > he's
> > > > > >ever
> > > > > > > > had
> > > > > > > > > with a piece of writing. I'm not very
> > good at judging poetry
> > > > (almost
> >
> === message truncated ===
>
>
> __________________________________
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> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
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From: "Phillip Iannarelli" <iann88us@yahoo.com>
>
> ---------------- Message requiring your approval (213
lines) ------------------
> The poem was completed before the commentary.
>
> Phil Iannarelli
> --- "D. Barton Johnson" <chtodel@cox.net> wrote:
> > EDNOTE. GK prompts me to wonder somehing I should
> > (but don't) know. Boyd may
> > supply the answer. Was the poem composed before,
> > during, or after the
> > "Commentary"?
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Kenny, Glenn" <gkenny@hfmus.com>
> > >
> > > ---------------- Message requiring your approval
> > (164
> > lines) ------------------
> > > The first thing to remember is that, regardless of
> > the illusion that the
> > > poem is a stand-alone work, it most manifestly is
> > not. Kinbote's
> > insistence
> > > that the poem has no existence without the
> > commentary is, in the context
> > of
> > > the novel, a kind of cruelty he inflicts on
> > Shade's shade; but in the
> > > reality outside the novel, it's absolutely true!
> > Add to that the fact that
> > > the poem is a pastiche-"one oozy footprint" behind
> > Frost, but expressing a
> > > sensibility very much in tune with V.N.'s own ("I
> > loathe such things as
> > > jazz," etc.)-and you have something that some
> > might argue is not quite
> > > quantifiable on its own. But let's forget all that
> > for the nonce. I think
> > it
> > > is an often very moving work, with an interesting
> > cinematic quality (i.e.,
> > > the "intercutting" between the Shade's
> > not-quite-channel surfing and
> > Hazel's
> > > journey to death) that isn't evident in the poets
> > that Shade is based
> > on....
> > >
> > > GK
> > >
> > > > ----------
> > > > From: D. Barton Johnson
> > > > Reply To: Vladimir Nabokov Forum
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 11:24 AM
> > > > To: NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU
> > > > Subject: Fw: Fw: Pale Fire, the poem
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Dane Gill" <pennyparkerpark@hotmail.com>
> > > > > ---------------- Message requiring your
> > approval (110
> > > > lines) ------------------
> > > > > Regardless of this I would still enjoyed
> > reading the opions of others
> > > > about
> > > > > the poem's literary value - does Nabokov
> > consider it a work of genius,
> > > > do
> > > > > youthe reader agree? I appreciate what you're
> > saying Beau Shaw, and as
> > > > I've
> > > > > said, my opinion is already formed, however,
> > were there nuances or
> > > > aspects
> > > > > of Pale Fire brought to my attention that has
> > hitherto eluded me, that
> > > > > opinion may change (as it is based on little
> > comparrison to other
> > > > poems).
> > > > > Thank you Dane Gill
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: "D. Barton Johnson" <chtodel@cox.net>
> > > > > >Reply-To: Vladimir Nabokov Forum
> > <NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
> > > > > >To: NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU
> > > > > >Subject: Fw: Pale Fire, the poem
> > > > > >Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 22:08:27 -0700
> > > > > >
> > > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > > >From: "Beau Shaw" <bs499@nyu.edu>
> > > > > >To: "Vladimir Nabokov Forum"
> > <NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
> > > > > >Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 9:34 AM
> > > > > >Subject: Re: Pale Fire, the poem
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > This message was originally submitted by
> > bs499@NYU.EDU to the
> > > > NABOKV-L
> > > > > >list at
> > > > > > > LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU. If you simply forward
> > it back to the list,
> > > > using
> > > > > >a
> > > > > > > command that generates "Resent-" fields
> > (ask your local user
> > support
> > > > or
> > > > > >consult
> > > > > > > the documentation of your mail program if
> > in doubt), it will be
> > > > > >distributed and
> > > > > > > the explanations you are now reading will
> > be removed
> > > > automatically.
> > > > If
> > > > > >on the
> > > > > > > other hand you edit the contributions you
> > receive into a digest,
> > > > you
> > > > > >will
> > > > > >have
> > > > > > > to remove this paragraph manually.
> > Finally, you should be able
> > to
> > > > > >contact the
> > > > > > > author of this message by using the
> > normal "reply" function
> > of
> > > > > >your
> > > > > > > program.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----------------- Message requiring your
> > approval (53
> > > > > >lines) ------------------
> > > > > > > I don't think your opinion of Pale Fire
> > (the poem) should be
> > > > "swayed"
> > > > by
> > > > > >our
> > > > > > > arguments! One does not "appreciate"
> > literature (or anything for
> > > > that
> > > > > > > matter, I suppose) by being instructed
> > that it's good or not.
> > Sapere
> > > > > >aude
> > > > > > > :)Personally, on repeated readings, it
> > strikes me as more and more
> > > > > > > beautiful, and complex. -Beau Shaw
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: D. Barton Johnson <chtodel@cox.net>
> > > > > > > To: <NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
> > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 11:05 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: Fw: Pale Fire, the poem
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > From: "Dane Gill"
> > <pennyparkerpark@hotmail.com>
> > > > > > > > > ----------------- Message requiring
> > your approval (24
> > > > > > > > lines) ------------------
> > > > > > > > > Greetings
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Is the poem in the novel, Pale Fire,
> > supposed to be a
> > > > demonstration
> > > > > >of
> > > > > > > > > poetic genuis? Is the poem itself a
> > represntation of Shade's
> > > > > > > straitforward
> > > > > > > > > style, lacking in genuis, and just
> > another indication of
> > > > Kinbote's
> > > > > > > > madness?
> > > > > > > > > I've discussed this before (not here)
> > to no avail. Basically
> > > > what
> > > > > >I'm
> > > > > > > > asking
> > > > > > > > > is this: Did Nabokov himself think the
> > poem Pale Fire was a
> > work
> > > > of
> > > > > > > > genius?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I've read (references elude me now -
> > but something tells me it
> > > > was
> > > > > >Boyd,
> > > > > > > > > though not sure) that Pale Fire was
> > actually the best poetry
> > > > Nabokov
> > > > > > > could
> > > > > > > > > write. And as said in Strong Opinions,
> > it was the most trouble
> > > > he's
> > > > > >ever
> > > > > > > > had
> > > > > > > > > with a piece of writing. I'm not very
> > good at judging poetry
> > > > (almost
> >
> === message truncated ===
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com