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----- Original Message -----
From: "pynchon-l-digest" <owner-pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
To: <pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 8:44 AM
Subject: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3509
>
> pynchon-l-digest Wednesday, August 27 2003 Volume 02 : Number
3509
> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 20:37:27 +1000
> From: jbor <jbor@bigpond.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF: Notes C.1-4 - C.42
>
> >> There is, I think, also a touch of Nabokov the imaginative artist,
Nabokov
> >> the exile from pre-Revolutionary Russia, in this wistful prИcis of "a
> >> fabulous kingdom" lost.
>
> > From: "Otto" <ottosell@[omitted]> Tue, 26 Aug 2003 17:28:47 +0200
>
> > Yes, but in this he's mocking himself a little bit, knowing that in
> > pre-Revolutionary Russia the poor weren't getting a little bit richer
> > and the rich weren't getting a little bit poorer like in that fairytale
> > he calls Kinbote's Law (Notes to Line 12).
>
> I also thought that an interesting paragraph. Kinbote emphasises how
> "peaceful and elegant" the reign of Charles the Beloved was (1936-1958),
and
> how "[e]verybody, in a word, was content -- even the political
> mischiefmakers who were contentedly making mischief paid by a contented
> *Sosed* (Zembla's gigantic neighbour)." But we get a rather different
> picture of the later years of the reign as his fiction progresses. So it
> does read a bit like historical revisionism on Kinbote's part.
>
> I'm given to believe that Nabokov's attitude towards Communism and
American
> Communist sympathisers was much the same as Shade's (NB the reference to
> "Pat Pink" at line 462), ie. that he was ardently anti-Communist. I guess
I
> agree that he's mocking himself a little in mirroring aspects of his own
> experience, career and family history in Kinbote. But it's more gentle
than
> it could have been, and I find much more pathos in Kinbote's delusional
> jottings and musings than I do in Shade's pretentious verses.
>
> In terms of the alternative history of monarchist Russia which Nabokov has
> Kinbote fashion in the note, it's worth pointing out that it spans a
period
> of time in our world when Stalin's tyranny had turned particularly nasty.
In
> fact, it's reasonable to suggest that the vision of social harmony, and
> "Kinbote's Law" which had engendered a more equitable distribution of
wealth
> in the society, is Nabokov's representation of the the way the trends of
> pre-Revolutionary Russia might have played out over time, of what could
have
> happened had Nicholas II not been overthrown and his family and heirs
> murdered so brutally by the Red Guard in 1918. It seems more likely to me
> that the irony has been directed against the Stalinist regime, when in
fact
> in the Soviet Union the poor got poorer and the rich got fewer (as it is
> depicted also in Orwell's _1984_), than at Tsarist Russia.
>
> best
>
> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 05:38:23 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: NPPF - From the N-list
>
> From interview with Anthony Burgess // Paris review. 1973. Vol.14. 56
(Spring),
> pp.119√163.
>
>
>
> <p.143>
>
>
>
> Has Nabokov influenced your work at all? You've praised "Lolita" highly.
>
> Reading "Lolita" meant that I enjoyed using lists of things in the "Right
to an
> Answer". I've not been much influenced by Nabokov, nor do I intend to be I
was
> writing the way I write before I knew he existed. But I've not been
impressed
> so much by another writer in the last decade or so.
>
>
>
> Yet you've been called an "English Nabokov", probably because of the
> cosmopolitan strain and verbal ingenuity in your writing.
>
> No influence. He's a Russian, I'm English. I meet him halfway in certain
> temperamental endowments. He's very artificial though.
>
>
>
> <p.144>
>
> In what way?
>
> Nabokov is a natural dandy on the grand international scale. I'm still a
> provincial boy scared of being to nattily dressed. All writing is
artificial
> and Nabokov's artifacts are only contrived in the rИcit part. His dialogue
is
> always natural and masterly (when he wants it to be). "Pale Fire" is only
> termed a novel because there's no other term for it. It's a masterly
literary
> artifact which is poem, commentary, casebook, allegory, sheer structure.
But I
> note that most people go back to reading the poem, not what surrounds the
poem.
> It's a fine poem, of course. Where Nabokov goes wrong, I think, is in
sometimes
> sounding old-fashioned √ a matter of rhythm, as thought Huysmans is to him
a
> sound and modern writer whose tradition is worthy to be worked in. John
Updike
> sounds old-fashioned sometimes in the same way √ glorious vocabulary and
> imagery but a lack of muscle in the rhythm.
>
>
> Does Nabokov rank at the top with Joyce?
>
> He won't go down in history as one of the greatest names. He's unworthy to
> unlace Joyce's shoe.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 05:44:44 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: NPPF - False Azure
>
> azure
> \Az"ure\, n. 1. The lapis lazuli. [Obs.]
>
> http://www.linsdomain.com/gemstones/lapizlazuli.htm
> Lapiz Lazuli is the Stone of Egypt
> and has exists since before time began.
> It is the connection between the physical plane
> and the celestial one.
>
> http://www.francesjane.com/lapiz.html
> Lapiz Lazuli is composed of lazurite, calcite, pyrite and diopside.
Hardness: 5
>
>
> Lapis Lazuli's Metaphysical Properties are: It is a stone said to have
existed
> since before "time was born," assisting one in gaining admission to the
domain
> of the unknown mysteries of the sacred texts and the esoteric ideas and
> enhancing the wisdom to understand the information. It further allows one
to
> gain access to, and to explore, the esoteric planetary knowledge. It helps
to
> stimulate emotional, mental, and physical purity and clarity, supporting
one's
> courage in activities culminating in the advancement toward universal
wisdom.
>
> A stone for acquiring wisdom and esoteric knowledge. Stone of protection.
> Regarded as a heavenly stone in ancient times for its apparent unearthly
> quality. It completely refreshes the spirit and creates a pure, ethical
> atmosphere. Healing: Bones, heart, eyes.
>
>
>
> http://www.jewelguru.com/info/lapizlazuli.htm
>
> Lapis Lazuli, the blue rock loved by the ancients, from Mesopotamia, to
Egypt,
> to Persia, to Greece and Rome. The ancient city of Ur has a thriving trade
in
> lapis as early as the fourth millennium B.C.
>
> The name is international, from the latin, lapis, which means stone, and
from
> the Arabic, azul, which means blue.
>
> When lapis was first introduced to Europe, it was called ultramarinum,
which
> means beyond the sea. Ground lapis was the secret of the blue in
ultramarine,
> the pigment which painters used to paint the sea and the sky until the
> nineteenth century. Lapis was also popular in inlays. The Romans believed
that
> lapis was a powerful aphrodisiac. In the Middle Ages, it was thought to
keep
> the limbs healthy and free the soul from error, envy and fear.
>
> Lapis is a dark blue microcrystalline rock composed primarily of the
mineral
> lazurite. It often sparkles with golden pyrite inclusions.
> Lapis lazuli is still mined at the deposits of the ancient world in
> Afghanistan. Lapis is also mined in Chile. Small quantities are also
produced
> in Siberia, in Colorado in the United States, and in Myanmar.
>
>
> __________________________________
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Morris" <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> To: "Pynchon List" <pynchon-l@waste.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 8:44 AM
> Subject: NPPF - False Azure
>
>
> >
> > azure
> > \Az"ure\, n. 1. The lapis lazuli. [Obs.]
> >
> > http://www.linsdomain.com/gemstones/lapizlazuli.htm
> > Lapiz Lazuli is the Stone of Egypt
> > and has exists since before time began.
> > It is the connection between the physical plane
> > and the celestial one.
> >
> > http://www.francesjane.com/lapiz.html
> > Lapiz Lazuli is composed of lazurite, calcite, pyrite and diopside.
> Hardness: 5
> >
> >
> > Lapis Lazuli's Metaphysical Properties are: It is a stone said to have
> existed
> > since before "time was born," assisting one in gaining admission to the
> domain
> > of the unknown mysteries of the sacred texts and the esoteric ideas and
> > enhancing the wisdom to understand the information. It further allows
one
> to
> > gain access to, and to explore, the esoteric planetary knowledge. It
helps
> to
> > stimulate emotional, mental, and physical purity and clarity, supporting
> one's
> > courage in activities culminating in the advancement toward universal
> wisdom.
> >
> > A stone for acquiring wisdom and esoteric knowledge. Stone of
protection.
> > Regarded as a heavenly stone in ancient times for its apparent unearthly
> > quality. It completely refreshes the spirit and creates a pure, ethical
> > atmosphere. Healing: Bones, heart, eyes.
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.jewelguru.com/info/lapizlazuli.htm
> >
> > Lapis Lazuli, the blue rock loved by the ancients, from Mesopotamia, to
> Egypt,
> > to Persia, to Greece and Rome. The ancient city of Ur has a thriving
trade
> in
> > lapis as early as the fourth millennium B.C.
> >
> > The name is international, from the latin, lapis, which means stone, and
> from
> > the Arabic, azul, which means blue.
> >
> > When lapis was first introduced to Europe, it was called ultramarinum,
> which
> > means beyond the sea. Ground lapis was the secret of the blue in
> ultramarine,
> > the pigment which painters used to paint the sea and the sky until the
> > nineteenth century. Lapis was also popular in inlays. The Romans
believed
> that
> > lapis was a powerful aphrodisiac. In the Middle Ages, it was thought to
> keep
> > the limbs healthy and free the soul from error, envy and fear.
> >
> > Lapis is a dark blue microcrystalline rock composed primarily of the
> mineral
> > lazurite. It often sparkles with golden pyrite inclusions.
> > Lapis lazuli is still mined at the deposits of the ancient world in
> > Afghanistan. Lapis is also mined in Chile. Small quantities are also
> produced
> > in Siberia, in Colorado in the United States, and in Myanmar.
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 09:06:40 -0400
> From: "charles albert" <calbert@hslboxmaster.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Comm4: Metadiscussion, anybody?
>
> Your analysis is right on the money, and Terrance deserves much credit for
> foresight.....I have been sitting on my hands with some stuff that fits
your
> description, and can't figure out how to proceed.....I have no particular
> suggestions as to how to address the problem and will gladly defer to a
> plurality behind any solution.....
>
> But leave us not deprive "Ginger" Badger of his star turn - few will ever
> know how hard he worked just to walk across the stage......
>
> love,
> cfa
>
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Don Corathers" <gumbo@fuse.net>
> To: <pynchon-l@waste.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 10:55 PM
> Subject: NPPF Comm4: Metadiscussion, anybody?
>
>
> > Decided to go ahead and post this now, because it includes (just a
little
> > way down) a structural question we might want to kick around a little
bit.
> >
> >
> > Line 71: parents (p 100)
> >
> > We learn a little more about Shade's parents: that his father Samuel,
vice
> > president of a surgical instruments company and ornithologist, died in
> 1902,
> > when Shade was four. That his mother Caroline was a skilled artist who
did
> > the drawings for Samuel's book about Mexican birds. Kinbote doesn't
report
> > when Shade's mother died.
> >
> > " 'a bird had been named for him: Bombycilla Shadei' (that should be
> > 'shadei,' of course)." Bombycilla is the genus name for the waxwing. The
> > common North American waxwing is Bombycilla garrulus. The cedar waxwing,
> > Bombycilla cedorum, is a close relative. The one that hit the window was
> > Bombycilla shadei.
> >
> > ".Lukin comes from Luke, as also do Locock and Luxon and Lukashevich. It
> > represents one of the many instances when the amorphous-looking but live
> and
> > personal hereditary patronymic grows, sometimes in fantastic shapes,
> around
> > the common pebble of a Christian name." As Botkin, cited as an example
> > (rather out of context) two sentences later, might become Kinbote.
> >
> > ".used to call any old tumble-down building 'a hurley-house.'" Nice one,
> > Charlie.
> >
> > And then abruptly we're in Zembla, meeting the king's parents. And here
we
> > approach a kind of turn in this discussion.
> >
> > Let me suggest some assumptions. I think we can assume that everybody
who
> is
> > following this discussion seriously has read the book at least once.
Thus
> we
> > 're all aware that Charles Kinbote believes himself to be the deposed
King
> > of Zembla, and that Kinbote is profoundly delusional. And that while
> Zembla
> > may or may not really exist in the fictional world of the novel, Kinbote
> is
> > probably not the king, and may not even be Kinbote. Gradus is probably
not
> > Gradus, but a local boy named Jack Grey who was trying to shoot the
judge
> > who committed him to an institution.
> >
> > Beyond that there are many discoveries yet to be made.
> >
> > Those of us who have read Boyd's *Nabokov's Pale Fire* know that the
> section
> > we're talking about now is central to an analysis that opens up the
novel
> > like a dark Vanessa spreading its wings. This raises a question that
goes
> > back to the spoilage discussions we had before the reading began, in a
> > somewhat different way, and to David Morris's post suggesting that the
> > reading is in the doldrums because everybody's sitting around waiting
for
> > the synthesis to begin. I realize now that this circumstance was what
what
> > Terrence must have had in mind when he said, early on, that our schedule
> was
> > fucked.
> >
> > If the point of this discussion, which is I think essentially
> recreational,
> > is to share the pleasures of unlocking a difficult work of art together,
> it
> > seems to me it is much too early in the game to begin posting big slabs
of
> > received wisdom. But I'm not sure just how we should proceed.
> >
> > I'd appreciate hearing what the group thinks.
> >
> > Don
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: 27 Aug 2003 10:26:56 -0400
> From: Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - False Azure
>
> The magical quality of azure also greatly affects the narrator of A la
> recherche du temps perdu at the crucial point in the novel when he first
> lays eyes on young Gilberte Swann:
>
> "Her black eyes gleamed, and since I did not at that time know, and
> indeed have never since learned, how to reduce a strong impression to
> its objective elements, since I had not, as they say, enough 'power of
> observation' to isolate the notion of their colour, for a long time
> afterwards, whenever I thought of her, the memory of those bright eyes
> would at once present itself to me as a vivid azure, since her
> complexion was fair; so much so that perhaps if her eyes had not been
> quite so black--which was what struck one most forcibly on first seeing
> her--I should not have been, as I was, so especially enamoured of the
> imagined blue." Swann's Way p. 198
>
> P.
>
>
> On Wed, 2003-08-27 at 08:55, charles albert wrote:
> > Stunning......but consistent....
> >
> >
> > Great work!
> >
> >
> > love,
> > cfa
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "David Morris" <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> > To: "Pynchon List" <pynchon-l@waste.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 8:44 AM
> > Subject: NPPF - False Azure
> >
> >
> > >
> > > azure
> > > \Az"ure\, n. 1. The lapis lazuli. [Obs.]
> > >
> > > http://www.linsdomain.com/gemstones/lapizlazuli.htm
> > > Lapiz Lazuli is the Stone of Egypt
> > > and has exists since before time began.
> > > It is the connection between the physical plane
> > > and the celestial one.
> > >
> > > http://www.francesjane.com/lapiz.html
> > > Lapiz Lazuli is composed of lazurite, calcite, pyrite and diopside.
> > Hardness: 5
> > >
> > >
> > > Lapis Lazuli's Metaphysical Properties are: It is a stone said to have
> > existed
> > > since before "time was born," assisting one in gaining admission to
the
> > domain
> > > of the unknown mysteries of the sacred texts and the esoteric ideas
and
> > > enhancing the wisdom to understand the information. It further allows
one
> > to
> > > gain access to, and to explore, the esoteric planetary knowledge. It
helps
> > to
> > > stimulate emotional, mental, and physical purity and clarity,
supporting
> > one's
> > > courage in activities culminating in the advancement toward universal
> > wisdom.
> > >
> > > A stone for acquiring wisdom and esoteric knowledge. Stone of
protection.
> > > Regarded as a heavenly stone in ancient times for its apparent
unearthly
> > > quality. It completely refreshes the spirit and creates a pure,
ethical
> > > atmosphere. Healing: Bones, heart, eyes.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > http://www.jewelguru.com/info/lapizlazuli.htm
> > >
> > > Lapis Lazuli, the blue rock loved by the ancients, from Mesopotamia,
to
> > Egypt,
> > > to Persia, to Greece and Rome. The ancient city of Ur has a thriving
trade
> > in
> > > lapis as early as the fourth millennium B.C.
> > >
> > > The name is international, from the latin, lapis, which means stone,
and
> > from
> > > the Arabic, azul, which means blue.
> > >
> > > When lapis was first introduced to Europe, it was called ultramarinum,
> > which
> > > means beyond the sea. Ground lapis was the secret of the blue in
> > ultramarine,
> > > the pigment which painters used to paint the sea and the sky until the
> > > nineteenth century. Lapis was also popular in inlays. The Romans
believed
> > that
> > > lapis was a powerful aphrodisiac. In the Middle Ages, it was thought
to
> > keep
> > > the limbs healthy and free the soul from error, envy and fear.
> > >
> > > Lapis is a dark blue microcrystalline rock composed primarily of the
> > mineral
> > > lazurite. It often sparkles with golden pyrite inclusions.
> > > Lapis lazuli is still mined at the deposits of the ancient world in
> > > Afghanistan. Lapis is also mined in Chile. Small quantities are also
> > produced
> > > in Siberia, in Colorado in the United States, and in Myanmar.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 07:43:22 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Comm4: Metadiscussion, anybody?
>
> - --- Don Corathers <gumbo@fuse.net> wrote:
> >
> > Line 71: parents (p 100)
> >
> > We learn a little more about Shade's parents: that his father Samuel,
vice
> president of a surgical instruments company and ornithologist, died in
1902,
> when Shade was four. That his mother Caroline was a skilled artist who did
the
> drawings for Samuel's book about Mexican birds. Kinbote doesn't report
when
> Shade's mother died.
>
> I don't have the book in front of me, but the poem does list two diseases
as
> the causes of their deaths. But the poem also says he was an "infant"
when
> they died, and four is beyond the normal definition of infancy (although
> legally it means a minor). Four year olds are usually called toddlers. I
> think the advent of walking and talking is the divider between infant and
> toddler.
>
> Lukin: Luke:
>
> http://21.1911encyclopedia.org/L/LU/LUKE.htm
>
> LUKE, the traditional author of the third Gospel and of the Book of Acts,
and
> the most literary among the writers of the New Testament. He alone, too,
was of
> non-Jewish origin (Col. iv. II, 14), a fact of great interest in relation
to
> his writings. His name, a more familiar form of Lucanus, taken together
with
> his profession of physician (Col. iv. 14), suggests that he was son of a
Greek
> freedman possibly connected with Lucania in south Italy; and as Julius
Caesar
> gave Roman citizenship to all physicians in Rome (Sueton. Jul. 42), Luke
may
> even have inherited this status from his father. But in any case such a
man
> would have the attitude to things Roman which appears in the works
attributed
> to Luke. He was a fellow-worker of Paul▓s when in Rome (Philemon 24),
where he
> seems to have remained in constant attendance on his leader, as physician
as
> well as attached friend (Col. iv. ~ 2 Tim. iv. 11). That Luke, before he
became
> a Christian, was an adherent of the synagogue-not a full proselyte, but
one of
> those ⌠ worshippers ⌠ of God to whom Acts makes frequent reference-≈is
fairly
> certain from the familiarity with the Septuagint indicated in Acts, as
well as
> from its sympathy with the Hellenistic type of piety as distinct from
specific
> Paulinism, of which there is but little trace.
>
> http://www.onelook.com/?other=web1913&w=Luke
> Luke
> (a.) Moderately warm; not hot; tepid.
>
>
> > " 'a bird had been named for him: Bombycilla Shadei' (that should be
> 'shadei,' of course)." Bombycilla is the genus name for the waxwing. The
common
> North American waxwing is Bombycilla garrulus. The cedar waxwing,
Bombycilla
> cedorum, is a close relative. The one that hit the window was Bombycilla
> shadei.
>
> This tidbit hints that the waxwing slain could be Shade's Father, and the
> shadow of the slain father would be Shade, and would be still untill
Shade's
> death.
>
> > If the point of this discussion, which is I think essentially
recreational,
> is to share the pleasures of unlocking a difficult work of art together,
it
> seems to me it is much too early in the game to begin posting big slabs of
> received wisdom.
>
> I agree, like a brainstorming session. But if someone wants to quote
Boyd,
> that's cool too.
>
> David Morris
>
> Subject: Re: NPPF hiatus?
>
> - --part1_174.1f8eebbe.2c7e1fcc_boundary
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> In a message dated 8/25/2003 11:11:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> gumbo@fuse.net writes:
>
> > I'm going to hold off posting notes on the rest of my
> > section until there are more (some?) PF readers present. Say, after
Labor
> > Day? All right?
> >
>
> Sorry, Don...I am present but inattentive--lots of deadlines keeping me
out
> of list action. After Labor Day sounds good, and your posts are
excellent!
> Elaine M.M. Bell, Writer
> (860) 523-9225
>
> In a message dated 8/25/2003 11:11:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> gumbo@fuse.net writes:
>
> > I'm going to hold off posting notes on the rest of my
> > section until there are more (some?) PF readers present. Say, after
Labor
> > Day? All right?
> >
>
> PS: Jasper's work also terrific...
> Elaine M.M. Bell, Writer
> (860) 523-9225
>> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 08:28:42 -0700
> From: Mary Krimmel <mary@krimmel.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Comm4: Metadiscussion, anybody?
>
> This is pretty far from the topic of PF, but I demur, slightly, here.
>
> David Morris wrote
>
> "... Four year olds are usually called toddlers. I
> think the advent of walking and talking is the divider between infant and
> toddler."
>
> In my experience, no one who knows a normal four year old ever called him
a
> toddler. "Pre-schooler", perhaps. Four year olds are graceful walkers.
They
> run, dance, sometimes ski or skate. Toddlers cannot do these things,
> although they often "dance" without moving their feet. Toddling is pretty
> much like waddling, except that with a toddler it's cute.
>
> Yes, the advent of walking at roughly a year divides infant from toddler.
> Although advent of talking is usually about the same time, that skill is
> neither necessary nor sufficient to designate a child a toddler.
>
> And Thank You, David, for your contributions.
>
> Mary Krimmel
>
> ------------------------------
> End of pynchon-l-digest V2 #3509
> ********************************
>
> To unsubscribe, send a message to waste@waste.org
> with "unsubscribe pynchon-l-digest" in the message body.
From: "pynchon-l-digest" <owner-pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
To: <pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 8:44 AM
Subject: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3509
>
> pynchon-l-digest Wednesday, August 27 2003 Volume 02 : Number
3509
> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 20:37:27 +1000
> From: jbor <jbor@bigpond.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF: Notes C.1-4 - C.42
>
> >> There is, I think, also a touch of Nabokov the imaginative artist,
Nabokov
> >> the exile from pre-Revolutionary Russia, in this wistful prИcis of "a
> >> fabulous kingdom" lost.
>
> > From: "Otto" <ottosell@[omitted]> Tue, 26 Aug 2003 17:28:47 +0200
>
> > Yes, but in this he's mocking himself a little bit, knowing that in
> > pre-Revolutionary Russia the poor weren't getting a little bit richer
> > and the rich weren't getting a little bit poorer like in that fairytale
> > he calls Kinbote's Law (Notes to Line 12).
>
> I also thought that an interesting paragraph. Kinbote emphasises how
> "peaceful and elegant" the reign of Charles the Beloved was (1936-1958),
and
> how "[e]verybody, in a word, was content -- even the political
> mischiefmakers who were contentedly making mischief paid by a contented
> *Sosed* (Zembla's gigantic neighbour)." But we get a rather different
> picture of the later years of the reign as his fiction progresses. So it
> does read a bit like historical revisionism on Kinbote's part.
>
> I'm given to believe that Nabokov's attitude towards Communism and
American
> Communist sympathisers was much the same as Shade's (NB the reference to
> "Pat Pink" at line 462), ie. that he was ardently anti-Communist. I guess
I
> agree that he's mocking himself a little in mirroring aspects of his own
> experience, career and family history in Kinbote. But it's more gentle
than
> it could have been, and I find much more pathos in Kinbote's delusional
> jottings and musings than I do in Shade's pretentious verses.
>
> In terms of the alternative history of monarchist Russia which Nabokov has
> Kinbote fashion in the note, it's worth pointing out that it spans a
period
> of time in our world when Stalin's tyranny had turned particularly nasty.
In
> fact, it's reasonable to suggest that the vision of social harmony, and
> "Kinbote's Law" which had engendered a more equitable distribution of
wealth
> in the society, is Nabokov's representation of the the way the trends of
> pre-Revolutionary Russia might have played out over time, of what could
have
> happened had Nicholas II not been overthrown and his family and heirs
> murdered so brutally by the Red Guard in 1918. It seems more likely to me
> that the irony has been directed against the Stalinist regime, when in
fact
> in the Soviet Union the poor got poorer and the rich got fewer (as it is
> depicted also in Orwell's _1984_), than at Tsarist Russia.
>
> best
>
> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 05:38:23 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: NPPF - From the N-list
>
> From interview with Anthony Burgess // Paris review. 1973. Vol.14. 56
(Spring),
> pp.119√163.
>
>
>
> <p.143>
>
>
>
> Has Nabokov influenced your work at all? You've praised "Lolita" highly.
>
> Reading "Lolita" meant that I enjoyed using lists of things in the "Right
to an
> Answer". I've not been much influenced by Nabokov, nor do I intend to be I
was
> writing the way I write before I knew he existed. But I've not been
impressed
> so much by another writer in the last decade or so.
>
>
>
> Yet you've been called an "English Nabokov", probably because of the
> cosmopolitan strain and verbal ingenuity in your writing.
>
> No influence. He's a Russian, I'm English. I meet him halfway in certain
> temperamental endowments. He's very artificial though.
>
>
>
> <p.144>
>
> In what way?
>
> Nabokov is a natural dandy on the grand international scale. I'm still a
> provincial boy scared of being to nattily dressed. All writing is
artificial
> and Nabokov's artifacts are only contrived in the rИcit part. His dialogue
is
> always natural and masterly (when he wants it to be). "Pale Fire" is only
> termed a novel because there's no other term for it. It's a masterly
literary
> artifact which is poem, commentary, casebook, allegory, sheer structure.
But I
> note that most people go back to reading the poem, not what surrounds the
poem.
> It's a fine poem, of course. Where Nabokov goes wrong, I think, is in
sometimes
> sounding old-fashioned √ a matter of rhythm, as thought Huysmans is to him
a
> sound and modern writer whose tradition is worthy to be worked in. John
Updike
> sounds old-fashioned sometimes in the same way √ glorious vocabulary and
> imagery but a lack of muscle in the rhythm.
>
>
> Does Nabokov rank at the top with Joyce?
>
> He won't go down in history as one of the greatest names. He's unworthy to
> unlace Joyce's shoe.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 05:44:44 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: NPPF - False Azure
>
> azure
> \Az"ure\, n. 1. The lapis lazuli. [Obs.]
>
> http://www.linsdomain.com/gemstones/lapizlazuli.htm
> Lapiz Lazuli is the Stone of Egypt
> and has exists since before time began.
> It is the connection between the physical plane
> and the celestial one.
>
> http://www.francesjane.com/lapiz.html
> Lapiz Lazuli is composed of lazurite, calcite, pyrite and diopside.
Hardness: 5
>
>
> Lapis Lazuli's Metaphysical Properties are: It is a stone said to have
existed
> since before "time was born," assisting one in gaining admission to the
domain
> of the unknown mysteries of the sacred texts and the esoteric ideas and
> enhancing the wisdom to understand the information. It further allows one
to
> gain access to, and to explore, the esoteric planetary knowledge. It helps
to
> stimulate emotional, mental, and physical purity and clarity, supporting
one's
> courage in activities culminating in the advancement toward universal
wisdom.
>
> A stone for acquiring wisdom and esoteric knowledge. Stone of protection.
> Regarded as a heavenly stone in ancient times for its apparent unearthly
> quality. It completely refreshes the spirit and creates a pure, ethical
> atmosphere. Healing: Bones, heart, eyes.
>
>
>
> http://www.jewelguru.com/info/lapizlazuli.htm
>
> Lapis Lazuli, the blue rock loved by the ancients, from Mesopotamia, to
Egypt,
> to Persia, to Greece and Rome. The ancient city of Ur has a thriving trade
in
> lapis as early as the fourth millennium B.C.
>
> The name is international, from the latin, lapis, which means stone, and
from
> the Arabic, azul, which means blue.
>
> When lapis was first introduced to Europe, it was called ultramarinum,
which
> means beyond the sea. Ground lapis was the secret of the blue in
ultramarine,
> the pigment which painters used to paint the sea and the sky until the
> nineteenth century. Lapis was also popular in inlays. The Romans believed
that
> lapis was a powerful aphrodisiac. In the Middle Ages, it was thought to
keep
> the limbs healthy and free the soul from error, envy and fear.
>
> Lapis is a dark blue microcrystalline rock composed primarily of the
mineral
> lazurite. It often sparkles with golden pyrite inclusions.
> Lapis lazuli is still mined at the deposits of the ancient world in
> Afghanistan. Lapis is also mined in Chile. Small quantities are also
produced
> in Siberia, in Colorado in the United States, and in Myanmar.
>
>
> __________________________________
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Morris" <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> To: "Pynchon List" <pynchon-l@waste.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 8:44 AM
> Subject: NPPF - False Azure
>
>
> >
> > azure
> > \Az"ure\, n. 1. The lapis lazuli. [Obs.]
> >
> > http://www.linsdomain.com/gemstones/lapizlazuli.htm
> > Lapiz Lazuli is the Stone of Egypt
> > and has exists since before time began.
> > It is the connection between the physical plane
> > and the celestial one.
> >
> > http://www.francesjane.com/lapiz.html
> > Lapiz Lazuli is composed of lazurite, calcite, pyrite and diopside.
> Hardness: 5
> >
> >
> > Lapis Lazuli's Metaphysical Properties are: It is a stone said to have
> existed
> > since before "time was born," assisting one in gaining admission to the
> domain
> > of the unknown mysteries of the sacred texts and the esoteric ideas and
> > enhancing the wisdom to understand the information. It further allows
one
> to
> > gain access to, and to explore, the esoteric planetary knowledge. It
helps
> to
> > stimulate emotional, mental, and physical purity and clarity, supporting
> one's
> > courage in activities culminating in the advancement toward universal
> wisdom.
> >
> > A stone for acquiring wisdom and esoteric knowledge. Stone of
protection.
> > Regarded as a heavenly stone in ancient times for its apparent unearthly
> > quality. It completely refreshes the spirit and creates a pure, ethical
> > atmosphere. Healing: Bones, heart, eyes.
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.jewelguru.com/info/lapizlazuli.htm
> >
> > Lapis Lazuli, the blue rock loved by the ancients, from Mesopotamia, to
> Egypt,
> > to Persia, to Greece and Rome. The ancient city of Ur has a thriving
trade
> in
> > lapis as early as the fourth millennium B.C.
> >
> > The name is international, from the latin, lapis, which means stone, and
> from
> > the Arabic, azul, which means blue.
> >
> > When lapis was first introduced to Europe, it was called ultramarinum,
> which
> > means beyond the sea. Ground lapis was the secret of the blue in
> ultramarine,
> > the pigment which painters used to paint the sea and the sky until the
> > nineteenth century. Lapis was also popular in inlays. The Romans
believed
> that
> > lapis was a powerful aphrodisiac. In the Middle Ages, it was thought to
> keep
> > the limbs healthy and free the soul from error, envy and fear.
> >
> > Lapis is a dark blue microcrystalline rock composed primarily of the
> mineral
> > lazurite. It often sparkles with golden pyrite inclusions.
> > Lapis lazuli is still mined at the deposits of the ancient world in
> > Afghanistan. Lapis is also mined in Chile. Small quantities are also
> produced
> > in Siberia, in Colorado in the United States, and in Myanmar.
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 09:06:40 -0400
> From: "charles albert" <calbert@hslboxmaster.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Comm4: Metadiscussion, anybody?
>
> Your analysis is right on the money, and Terrance deserves much credit for
> foresight.....I have been sitting on my hands with some stuff that fits
your
> description, and can't figure out how to proceed.....I have no particular
> suggestions as to how to address the problem and will gladly defer to a
> plurality behind any solution.....
>
> But leave us not deprive "Ginger" Badger of his star turn - few will ever
> know how hard he worked just to walk across the stage......
>
> love,
> cfa
>
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Don Corathers" <gumbo@fuse.net>
> To: <pynchon-l@waste.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 10:55 PM
> Subject: NPPF Comm4: Metadiscussion, anybody?
>
>
> > Decided to go ahead and post this now, because it includes (just a
little
> > way down) a structural question we might want to kick around a little
bit.
> >
> >
> > Line 71: parents (p 100)
> >
> > We learn a little more about Shade's parents: that his father Samuel,
vice
> > president of a surgical instruments company and ornithologist, died in
> 1902,
> > when Shade was four. That his mother Caroline was a skilled artist who
did
> > the drawings for Samuel's book about Mexican birds. Kinbote doesn't
report
> > when Shade's mother died.
> >
> > " 'a bird had been named for him: Bombycilla Shadei' (that should be
> > 'shadei,' of course)." Bombycilla is the genus name for the waxwing. The
> > common North American waxwing is Bombycilla garrulus. The cedar waxwing,
> > Bombycilla cedorum, is a close relative. The one that hit the window was
> > Bombycilla shadei.
> >
> > ".Lukin comes from Luke, as also do Locock and Luxon and Lukashevich. It
> > represents one of the many instances when the amorphous-looking but live
> and
> > personal hereditary patronymic grows, sometimes in fantastic shapes,
> around
> > the common pebble of a Christian name." As Botkin, cited as an example
> > (rather out of context) two sentences later, might become Kinbote.
> >
> > ".used to call any old tumble-down building 'a hurley-house.'" Nice one,
> > Charlie.
> >
> > And then abruptly we're in Zembla, meeting the king's parents. And here
we
> > approach a kind of turn in this discussion.
> >
> > Let me suggest some assumptions. I think we can assume that everybody
who
> is
> > following this discussion seriously has read the book at least once.
Thus
> we
> > 're all aware that Charles Kinbote believes himself to be the deposed
King
> > of Zembla, and that Kinbote is profoundly delusional. And that while
> Zembla
> > may or may not really exist in the fictional world of the novel, Kinbote
> is
> > probably not the king, and may not even be Kinbote. Gradus is probably
not
> > Gradus, but a local boy named Jack Grey who was trying to shoot the
judge
> > who committed him to an institution.
> >
> > Beyond that there are many discoveries yet to be made.
> >
> > Those of us who have read Boyd's *Nabokov's Pale Fire* know that the
> section
> > we're talking about now is central to an analysis that opens up the
novel
> > like a dark Vanessa spreading its wings. This raises a question that
goes
> > back to the spoilage discussions we had before the reading began, in a
> > somewhat different way, and to David Morris's post suggesting that the
> > reading is in the doldrums because everybody's sitting around waiting
for
> > the synthesis to begin. I realize now that this circumstance was what
what
> > Terrence must have had in mind when he said, early on, that our schedule
> was
> > fucked.
> >
> > If the point of this discussion, which is I think essentially
> recreational,
> > is to share the pleasures of unlocking a difficult work of art together,
> it
> > seems to me it is much too early in the game to begin posting big slabs
of
> > received wisdom. But I'm not sure just how we should proceed.
> >
> > I'd appreciate hearing what the group thinks.
> >
> > Don
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: 27 Aug 2003 10:26:56 -0400
> From: Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF - False Azure
>
> The magical quality of azure also greatly affects the narrator of A la
> recherche du temps perdu at the crucial point in the novel when he first
> lays eyes on young Gilberte Swann:
>
> "Her black eyes gleamed, and since I did not at that time know, and
> indeed have never since learned, how to reduce a strong impression to
> its objective elements, since I had not, as they say, enough 'power of
> observation' to isolate the notion of their colour, for a long time
> afterwards, whenever I thought of her, the memory of those bright eyes
> would at once present itself to me as a vivid azure, since her
> complexion was fair; so much so that perhaps if her eyes had not been
> quite so black--which was what struck one most forcibly on first seeing
> her--I should not have been, as I was, so especially enamoured of the
> imagined blue." Swann's Way p. 198
>
> P.
>
>
> On Wed, 2003-08-27 at 08:55, charles albert wrote:
> > Stunning......but consistent....
> >
> >
> > Great work!
> >
> >
> > love,
> > cfa
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "David Morris" <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> > To: "Pynchon List" <pynchon-l@waste.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 8:44 AM
> > Subject: NPPF - False Azure
> >
> >
> > >
> > > azure
> > > \Az"ure\, n. 1. The lapis lazuli. [Obs.]
> > >
> > > http://www.linsdomain.com/gemstones/lapizlazuli.htm
> > > Lapiz Lazuli is the Stone of Egypt
> > > and has exists since before time began.
> > > It is the connection between the physical plane
> > > and the celestial one.
> > >
> > > http://www.francesjane.com/lapiz.html
> > > Lapiz Lazuli is composed of lazurite, calcite, pyrite and diopside.
> > Hardness: 5
> > >
> > >
> > > Lapis Lazuli's Metaphysical Properties are: It is a stone said to have
> > existed
> > > since before "time was born," assisting one in gaining admission to
the
> > domain
> > > of the unknown mysteries of the sacred texts and the esoteric ideas
and
> > > enhancing the wisdom to understand the information. It further allows
one
> > to
> > > gain access to, and to explore, the esoteric planetary knowledge. It
helps
> > to
> > > stimulate emotional, mental, and physical purity and clarity,
supporting
> > one's
> > > courage in activities culminating in the advancement toward universal
> > wisdom.
> > >
> > > A stone for acquiring wisdom and esoteric knowledge. Stone of
protection.
> > > Regarded as a heavenly stone in ancient times for its apparent
unearthly
> > > quality. It completely refreshes the spirit and creates a pure,
ethical
> > > atmosphere. Healing: Bones, heart, eyes.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > http://www.jewelguru.com/info/lapizlazuli.htm
> > >
> > > Lapis Lazuli, the blue rock loved by the ancients, from Mesopotamia,
to
> > Egypt,
> > > to Persia, to Greece and Rome. The ancient city of Ur has a thriving
trade
> > in
> > > lapis as early as the fourth millennium B.C.
> > >
> > > The name is international, from the latin, lapis, which means stone,
and
> > from
> > > the Arabic, azul, which means blue.
> > >
> > > When lapis was first introduced to Europe, it was called ultramarinum,
> > which
> > > means beyond the sea. Ground lapis was the secret of the blue in
> > ultramarine,
> > > the pigment which painters used to paint the sea and the sky until the
> > > nineteenth century. Lapis was also popular in inlays. The Romans
believed
> > that
> > > lapis was a powerful aphrodisiac. In the Middle Ages, it was thought
to
> > keep
> > > the limbs healthy and free the soul from error, envy and fear.
> > >
> > > Lapis is a dark blue microcrystalline rock composed primarily of the
> > mineral
> > > lazurite. It often sparkles with golden pyrite inclusions.
> > > Lapis lazuli is still mined at the deposits of the ancient world in
> > > Afghanistan. Lapis is also mined in Chile. Small quantities are also
> > produced
> > > in Siberia, in Colorado in the United States, and in Myanmar.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 07:43:22 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Comm4: Metadiscussion, anybody?
>
> - --- Don Corathers <gumbo@fuse.net> wrote:
> >
> > Line 71: parents (p 100)
> >
> > We learn a little more about Shade's parents: that his father Samuel,
vice
> president of a surgical instruments company and ornithologist, died in
1902,
> when Shade was four. That his mother Caroline was a skilled artist who did
the
> drawings for Samuel's book about Mexican birds. Kinbote doesn't report
when
> Shade's mother died.
>
> I don't have the book in front of me, but the poem does list two diseases
as
> the causes of their deaths. But the poem also says he was an "infant"
when
> they died, and four is beyond the normal definition of infancy (although
> legally it means a minor). Four year olds are usually called toddlers. I
> think the advent of walking and talking is the divider between infant and
> toddler.
>
> Lukin: Luke:
>
> http://21.1911encyclopedia.org/L/LU/LUKE.htm
>
> LUKE, the traditional author of the third Gospel and of the Book of Acts,
and
> the most literary among the writers of the New Testament. He alone, too,
was of
> non-Jewish origin (Col. iv. II, 14), a fact of great interest in relation
to
> his writings. His name, a more familiar form of Lucanus, taken together
with
> his profession of physician (Col. iv. 14), suggests that he was son of a
Greek
> freedman possibly connected with Lucania in south Italy; and as Julius
Caesar
> gave Roman citizenship to all physicians in Rome (Sueton. Jul. 42), Luke
may
> even have inherited this status from his father. But in any case such a
man
> would have the attitude to things Roman which appears in the works
attributed
> to Luke. He was a fellow-worker of Paul▓s when in Rome (Philemon 24),
where he
> seems to have remained in constant attendance on his leader, as physician
as
> well as attached friend (Col. iv. ~ 2 Tim. iv. 11). That Luke, before he
became
> a Christian, was an adherent of the synagogue-not a full proselyte, but
one of
> those ⌠ worshippers ⌠ of God to whom Acts makes frequent reference-≈is
fairly
> certain from the familiarity with the Septuagint indicated in Acts, as
well as
> from its sympathy with the Hellenistic type of piety as distinct from
specific
> Paulinism, of which there is but little trace.
>
> http://www.onelook.com/?other=web1913&w=Luke
> Luke
> (a.) Moderately warm; not hot; tepid.
>
>
> > " 'a bird had been named for him: Bombycilla Shadei' (that should be
> 'shadei,' of course)." Bombycilla is the genus name for the waxwing. The
common
> North American waxwing is Bombycilla garrulus. The cedar waxwing,
Bombycilla
> cedorum, is a close relative. The one that hit the window was Bombycilla
> shadei.
>
> This tidbit hints that the waxwing slain could be Shade's Father, and the
> shadow of the slain father would be Shade, and would be still untill
Shade's
> death.
>
> > If the point of this discussion, which is I think essentially
recreational,
> is to share the pleasures of unlocking a difficult work of art together,
it
> seems to me it is much too early in the game to begin posting big slabs of
> received wisdom.
>
> I agree, like a brainstorming session. But if someone wants to quote
Boyd,
> that's cool too.
>
> David Morris
>
> Subject: Re: NPPF hiatus?
>
> - --part1_174.1f8eebbe.2c7e1fcc_boundary
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> In a message dated 8/25/2003 11:11:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> gumbo@fuse.net writes:
>
> > I'm going to hold off posting notes on the rest of my
> > section until there are more (some?) PF readers present. Say, after
Labor
> > Day? All right?
> >
>
> Sorry, Don...I am present but inattentive--lots of deadlines keeping me
out
> of list action. After Labor Day sounds good, and your posts are
excellent!
> Elaine M.M. Bell, Writer
> (860) 523-9225
>
> In a message dated 8/25/2003 11:11:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> gumbo@fuse.net writes:
>
> > I'm going to hold off posting notes on the rest of my
> > section until there are more (some?) PF readers present. Say, after
Labor
> > Day? All right?
> >
>
> PS: Jasper's work also terrific...
> Elaine M.M. Bell, Writer
> (860) 523-9225
>> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 08:28:42 -0700
> From: Mary Krimmel <mary@krimmel.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Comm4: Metadiscussion, anybody?
>
> This is pretty far from the topic of PF, but I demur, slightly, here.
>
> David Morris wrote
>
> "... Four year olds are usually called toddlers. I
> think the advent of walking and talking is the divider between infant and
> toddler."
>
> In my experience, no one who knows a normal four year old ever called him
a
> toddler. "Pre-schooler", perhaps. Four year olds are graceful walkers.
They
> run, dance, sometimes ski or skate. Toddlers cannot do these things,
> although they often "dance" without moving their feet. Toddling is pretty
> much like waddling, except that with a toddler it's cute.
>
> Yes, the advent of walking at roughly a year divides infant from toddler.
> Although advent of talking is usually about the same time, that skill is
> neither necessary nor sufficient to designate a child a toddler.
>
> And Thank You, David, for your contributions.
>
> Mary Krimmel
>
> ------------------------------
> End of pynchon-l-digest V2 #3509
> ********************************
>
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