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Fw: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3547 Pale fire Commentary 3
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----- Original Message -----
From: "pynchon-l-digest" <owner-pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
To: <pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2003 12:00 AM
Subject: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3547
>
> pynchon-l-digest Saturday, September 13 2003 Volume 02 : Number
3547
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:26:41 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Dave Monroe <monrovius@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Comm3: Psyche images
>
> Ah, tbak you, I haven't been keeping up. Fired that
> lasrt one off on my way out yetserday ...
>
> - --- Michael Joseph <mjoseph@rci.rutgers.edu> wrote:
> > Thanks for responding to my post, David.
> >
> > Sonia Cavicchioli's "The Tale of Cupid and Psyche"
> > (NY: Braziller, 2002) is the best, most
> > comprehensive study of the tale of Cupid and Psyche
> > and its interpretations and artistic representations
> > that I know of....
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:41:22 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Dave Monroe <monrovius@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Comm3: Misc notes (6)
>
> Thanks to all (esp. Michael). A subject of much
> interest 'round these parts ...
>
> - --- David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Dave (and Michael). This MUST be very
> > relevant to Plae Fire. I didn't know...
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:51:38 -0700
> From: "sZ" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: NPPF Gunsmoke
>
> Offlist, Carolyn Kunin got me focused on the 'G, K, and S (which see)' in
> the Index. I which saw G and v.q.'d K, but when I came to 'S', there was
no
> entry. So then I wondered if the S was a 'C' (see) [sosed = coced [v.q.])
> and ended up with GKC, which brought GK Chesterton to mind. Looking up his
> bibliography I ran across this which see I have ordered.
>
> The Poet and the Lunatics
> by G. K. Chesterton
>
> Gabriel Gale is an eccentric poet. His madness is the madness of insight
and
> he uses this gift to solve or prevent crimes committed by madmen.
Chesterton
> ably illustrates his own premise that lunacy and sanity may just be a
point
> of view
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 16:32:17 -0700
> From: "sZ" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Gunsmoke (reprise)
>
> Looking back through NPPF I see that cfalbert has mentioned GKChesterton
> already re: The Man Who Would be Thursday.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 13:32:29 +1000
> From: jbor <jbor@bigpond.com>
> Subject: NPPF On Shade's Maud's Keats' Chapman's Homer
>
> I'm not really sure where we're supposed to be up to with the group read,
> and the page numbers in my book don't match up with the page numbers being
> given in the list discussion, however, it's noteworthy that Kinbote
bungles
> both the annotation to Line 98, where he fails to recognise Shade's
> memorialisation of Maud's literary wit in clipping and mounting the
> newspaper baseball headline which ironically and unintentionally echoes
the
> title of Keats' famous poem, and the annotation to Lines 120-1, where he
> can't understand the simple ratio calculation Shade has made, and where he
> admits "perhaps I am only tired." The very next annotation goes on in an
> extremely energetic way for 14 pages, though it has nothing whatever to do
> with the poem, so it's not that he's "tired" at all, it's the fact that
he's
> absolutely frustrated that the poem isn't what he wants it to be on the
one
> hand, and that he's not a particularly astute reader or careful critic on
> the other, that Nabokov is foregrounding by having him make errors like
> these continuously throughout his commentary.
>
> best
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 13:33:26 +1000
> From: jbor <jbor@bigpond.com>
> Subject: NPPF a state of independence
>
> on 9/9/03 12:13 PM, Jasper Fidget at fakename@verizon.net wrote:
>
> > While Charles is trapped in his fairy tale castle, Kinbote is trapped in
his
> > solipsistic prison of mirrors, each of them seeking some means of
escape.
> > For the Charles, it lies through the secret passage: his route to the
Royal
> > theater; for Kinbote, it lies through John Shade's poem: his route to
> > Zembla. For both of them, the liberating destination is art. (And so
also
> > an explanation for all the literary characters and artistic allusions
that
> > pop up in Kinbote's fantasy.)
>
> In Kinbote's Commentary to Line 130, I think it might be significant that
> the date on Shade's index card (July 4) synchronises with the point in the
> text where Kinbote's Zemblan narrative finally achieves its independence.
>
> Great notes, Jasper. Thanks.
>
> best
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 00:14:14 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Michael Joseph <mjoseph@rci.rutgers.edu>
> Subject: Re: NPPF On Shade's Maud's Keats' Chapman's Homer
>
> Thanks, Jbor. Seems to me that the pace of reading slowed down, but I am
> prepared to pick up at line 171 sometime soon if that's agreeable.
>
> Michael
>
>
> On Sat, 13 Sep 2003, jbor wrote:
>
> > I'm not really sure where we're supposed to be up to with the group
read,
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 15:22:56 +1000
> From: jbor <jbor@bigpond.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF irresolution
>
> on 5/9/03 5:51 PM, jbor wrote:
>
> > I also think that the "solution" that there is no solution is as elegant
as
> > any. I can see why Kinbote's self-consciousness about the existence of
> > "Botkin" would throw a spanner in the works of a lot of the critics who
argue
> > for this or that "ultimate" reading of who wrote who, and why they would
thus
> > try and dismiss these details about Botkin which Kinbote drops into his
notes
> > as excessive or irrelevant. But I think it might also pay to keep in
mind the
> > fact that most chess games end up unresolved, often elegantly so.
>
> NB also the mirrored players' names and the outcome in that chess match
> mentioned in the annotation to line 130:
>
> They found Beauchamp and Campbell ending their game in a draw.
>
> [Walter] Campbell, Scottish, born 1890, gets a reference and a bit more
> biodata in the Index as "K's tutor" (King's? Kinbote's?). Monsieur
> Beauchamp, who doesn't, is, I'm assuming, Oleg's tutor.
>
> best
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 15:34:21 +1000
> From: jbor <jbor@bigpond.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF irresolution
>
> on 13/9/03 3:22 PM, jbor wrote:
>
> > [Walter] Campbell, Scottish, born 1890, gets a reference and a bit more
> > biodata in the Index as "K's tutor" (King's? Kinbote's?). Monsieur
Beauchamp,
> > who doesn't, is, I'm assuming, Oleg's tutor.
>
> I just noticed that there are two different ways in which the initial "K"
is
> used in the Index. When it's written in italics it refers to "Kinbote",
when
> it's not in italics it seems to refer to "the King". The pretence --
perhaps
> only the pretence of a pretence -- of a separation between Kinbote and
> Charles the Beloved *is* sustained in the Index after all.
>
> best
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 15:37:29 +1000
> From: jbor <jbor@bigpond.com>
> Subject: NPPF ps
>
> What's the joke with Oleg and the tulip?
>
> best
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of pynchon-l-digest V2 #3547
> ********************************
>
From: "pynchon-l-digest" <owner-pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
To: <pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2003 12:00 AM
Subject: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3547
>
> pynchon-l-digest Saturday, September 13 2003 Volume 02 : Number
3547
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:26:41 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Dave Monroe <monrovius@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Comm3: Psyche images
>
> Ah, tbak you, I haven't been keeping up. Fired that
> lasrt one off on my way out yetserday ...
>
> - --- Michael Joseph <mjoseph@rci.rutgers.edu> wrote:
> > Thanks for responding to my post, David.
> >
> > Sonia Cavicchioli's "The Tale of Cupid and Psyche"
> > (NY: Braziller, 2002) is the best, most
> > comprehensive study of the tale of Cupid and Psyche
> > and its interpretations and artistic representations
> > that I know of....
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:41:22 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Dave Monroe <monrovius@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Comm3: Misc notes (6)
>
> Thanks to all (esp. Michael). A subject of much
> interest 'round these parts ...
>
> - --- David Morris <fqmorris@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Dave (and Michael). This MUST be very
> > relevant to Plae Fire. I didn't know...
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:51:38 -0700
> From: "sZ" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: NPPF Gunsmoke
>
> Offlist, Carolyn Kunin got me focused on the 'G, K, and S (which see)' in
> the Index. I which saw G and v.q.'d K, but when I came to 'S', there was
no
> entry. So then I wondered if the S was a 'C' (see) [sosed = coced [v.q.])
> and ended up with GKC, which brought GK Chesterton to mind. Looking up his
> bibliography I ran across this which see I have ordered.
>
> The Poet and the Lunatics
> by G. K. Chesterton
>
> Gabriel Gale is an eccentric poet. His madness is the madness of insight
and
> he uses this gift to solve or prevent crimes committed by madmen.
Chesterton
> ably illustrates his own premise that lunacy and sanity may just be a
point
> of view
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 16:32:17 -0700
> From: "sZ" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Gunsmoke (reprise)
>
> Looking back through NPPF I see that cfalbert has mentioned GKChesterton
> already re: The Man Who Would be Thursday.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 13:32:29 +1000
> From: jbor <jbor@bigpond.com>
> Subject: NPPF On Shade's Maud's Keats' Chapman's Homer
>
> I'm not really sure where we're supposed to be up to with the group read,
> and the page numbers in my book don't match up with the page numbers being
> given in the list discussion, however, it's noteworthy that Kinbote
bungles
> both the annotation to Line 98, where he fails to recognise Shade's
> memorialisation of Maud's literary wit in clipping and mounting the
> newspaper baseball headline which ironically and unintentionally echoes
the
> title of Keats' famous poem, and the annotation to Lines 120-1, where he
> can't understand the simple ratio calculation Shade has made, and where he
> admits "perhaps I am only tired." The very next annotation goes on in an
> extremely energetic way for 14 pages, though it has nothing whatever to do
> with the poem, so it's not that he's "tired" at all, it's the fact that
he's
> absolutely frustrated that the poem isn't what he wants it to be on the
one
> hand, and that he's not a particularly astute reader or careful critic on
> the other, that Nabokov is foregrounding by having him make errors like
> these continuously throughout his commentary.
>
> best
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 13:33:26 +1000
> From: jbor <jbor@bigpond.com>
> Subject: NPPF a state of independence
>
> on 9/9/03 12:13 PM, Jasper Fidget at fakename@verizon.net wrote:
>
> > While Charles is trapped in his fairy tale castle, Kinbote is trapped in
his
> > solipsistic prison of mirrors, each of them seeking some means of
escape.
> > For the Charles, it lies through the secret passage: his route to the
Royal
> > theater; for Kinbote, it lies through John Shade's poem: his route to
> > Zembla. For both of them, the liberating destination is art. (And so
also
> > an explanation for all the literary characters and artistic allusions
that
> > pop up in Kinbote's fantasy.)
>
> In Kinbote's Commentary to Line 130, I think it might be significant that
> the date on Shade's index card (July 4) synchronises with the point in the
> text where Kinbote's Zemblan narrative finally achieves its independence.
>
> Great notes, Jasper. Thanks.
>
> best
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 00:14:14 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Michael Joseph <mjoseph@rci.rutgers.edu>
> Subject: Re: NPPF On Shade's Maud's Keats' Chapman's Homer
>
> Thanks, Jbor. Seems to me that the pace of reading slowed down, but I am
> prepared to pick up at line 171 sometime soon if that's agreeable.
>
> Michael
>
>
> On Sat, 13 Sep 2003, jbor wrote:
>
> > I'm not really sure where we're supposed to be up to with the group
read,
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 15:22:56 +1000
> From: jbor <jbor@bigpond.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF irresolution
>
> on 5/9/03 5:51 PM, jbor wrote:
>
> > I also think that the "solution" that there is no solution is as elegant
as
> > any. I can see why Kinbote's self-consciousness about the existence of
> > "Botkin" would throw a spanner in the works of a lot of the critics who
argue
> > for this or that "ultimate" reading of who wrote who, and why they would
thus
> > try and dismiss these details about Botkin which Kinbote drops into his
notes
> > as excessive or irrelevant. But I think it might also pay to keep in
mind the
> > fact that most chess games end up unresolved, often elegantly so.
>
> NB also the mirrored players' names and the outcome in that chess match
> mentioned in the annotation to line 130:
>
> They found Beauchamp and Campbell ending their game in a draw.
>
> [Walter] Campbell, Scottish, born 1890, gets a reference and a bit more
> biodata in the Index as "K's tutor" (King's? Kinbote's?). Monsieur
> Beauchamp, who doesn't, is, I'm assuming, Oleg's tutor.
>
> best
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 15:34:21 +1000
> From: jbor <jbor@bigpond.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF irresolution
>
> on 13/9/03 3:22 PM, jbor wrote:
>
> > [Walter] Campbell, Scottish, born 1890, gets a reference and a bit more
> > biodata in the Index as "K's tutor" (King's? Kinbote's?). Monsieur
Beauchamp,
> > who doesn't, is, I'm assuming, Oleg's tutor.
>
> I just noticed that there are two different ways in which the initial "K"
is
> used in the Index. When it's written in italics it refers to "Kinbote",
when
> it's not in italics it seems to refer to "the King". The pretence --
perhaps
> only the pretence of a pretence -- of a separation between Kinbote and
> Charles the Beloved *is* sustained in the Index after all.
>
> best
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 15:37:29 +1000
> From: jbor <jbor@bigpond.com>
> Subject: NPPF ps
>
> What's the joke with Oleg and the tulip?
>
> best
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of pynchon-l-digest V2 #3547
> ********************************
>