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Fw: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3548 Pale Fire
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----- Original Message -----
From: "pynchon-l-digest" <owner-pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
To: <pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2003 12:00 AM
Subject: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3548
>
> pynchon-l-digest Sunday, September 14 2003 Volume 02 : Number
3548
>
>
>
> Re: NPPF ps
> RE: NPPF ps
> RE: NPPF irresolution
> Re: NPPF Gunsmoke (reprise)
> Re: NPPF King>Shade>Kinbote
> Voltaire quote in Mason and Dixon
> Re: NPPF irresolution
> Re: NPPF ps
> Re: NPPF irresolution
> Re: NPPF irresolution
> Re: Voltaire quote in Mason and Dixon
> fake $200 Dubya bill
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: 13 Sep 2003 12:24:30 -0400
> From: Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF ps
>
> On Sat, 2003-09-13 at 01:37, jbor wrote:
> > What's the joke with Oleg and the tulip?
>
>
> Only thing that occurs to me is that the tulip is sometimes emblematic
> of a precious, effete person of the sort the manly prince hopes Oleg has
> not turned into during their year of separation..
>
> P
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 13:49:24 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <fakename@verizon.net>
> Subject: RE: NPPF ps
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pynchon-l@waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l@waste.org] On
> > Behalf Of Paul Mackin
> > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2003 12:25 PM
> > To: pynchon-l@waste.org
> > Subject: Re: NPPF ps
> >
> > On Sat, 2003-09-13 at 01:37, jbor wrote:
> > > What's the joke with Oleg and the tulip?
> >
> >
> > Only thing that occurs to me is that the tulip is sometimes emblematic
> > of a precious, effete person of the sort the manly prince hopes Oleg has
> > not turned into during their year of separation..
> >
> > P
>
> I agree with Paul on why the tulip is funny; also just because it's set in
a
> simple sentence like a punchline: "As he was returning, Oleg arrived. He
> carried a tulip." And tulip is a funny word.
>
> Maybe Oleg is arriving from a tulip festival in the Netherlands (it's
May)?
> I can't find anything that stands out for tulips AND 1928, although May,
> 1928 is when tulips first arrived in Holland, Michigan -- they have a
"Tulip
> Time" festival every year.
>
> The Netherlands got their tulips in 1593 from Persia (like "the Persian
> lilacs in riotous bloom" that also connect to Oleg) and apparently went
> through a tulip craze that peaked around the time Charles II lived there
in
> exile. This was during the 80 Years War between the Dutch and Spain, and
> also the time of Rembrandt and Vermeer.
>
> http://www.personal.psu.edu/staff/r/v/rvs2/biol020/tulips.htm
> http://www.florissa.com/history/history.html
>
> Jasper
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 14:14:27 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <fakename@verizon.net>
> Subject: RE: NPPF irresolution
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pynchon-l@waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l@waste.org] On
> > Behalf Of jbor
> > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2003 1:34 AM
> > To: pynchon-l@waste.org
> > Subject: Re: NPPF irresolution
> >
> > on 13/9/03 3:22 PM, jbor wrote:
> >
> > > [Walter] Campbell, Scottish, born 1890, gets a reference and a bit
more
> > > biodata in the Index as "K's tutor" (King's? Kinbote's?). Monsieur
> > Beauchamp,
> > > who doesn't, is, I'm assuming, Oleg's tutor.
>
> Good catch, I hadn't noticed that -- Beauchamp sits down at Campbell's
> bedside just after Oleg arrives.
>
> >
> > I just noticed that there are two different ways in which the initial
"K"
> > is
> > used in the Index. When it's written in italics it refers to "Kinbote",
> > when
> > it's not in italics it seems to refer to "the King". The pretence --
> > perhaps
> > only the pretence of a pretence -- of a separation between Kinbote and
> > Charles the Beloved *is* sustained in the Index after all.
> >
> > best
>
> Interesting -- under Shade, John: "/K/'s spectacular arrival in the USA,
> 691" uses the italicized version. That's the note where the narrator goes
> from speaking of the king in the 3rd person to the 1st. In fact they're
all
> italicized under "Shade" -- it seems like it's the subject of the entry
that
> determines whether or not to use italics. I haven't found any entries
that
> have both, and it seems all the Zembla entries have K while all the New
Wye
> entries have /K/.
>
> And check out the entry for /K/: "see Charles II and Kinbote."
>
> All the people in the text have their names or initials italicized (eg /S/
> for Shade and /G/ for Gradus), except for K(ing).
>
> And why K instead of V (for Vseslav) or C (for Charles II)?
>
> Jasper
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 18:05:57 -0400
> From: "charles albert" <calbert@hslboxmaster.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Gunsmoke (reprise)
>
> uh, well........yeah.....
>
> and the critical GKC modality is "paradox"........
>
> but I probably didn't communicate that very well...
>
> glad to see him back in play though.....
>
>
> love,
> cfa
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "sZ" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> To: <pynchon-l@waste.org>
> Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 7:32 PM
> Subject: Re: NPPF Gunsmoke (reprise)
>
>
> > Looking back through NPPF I see that cfalbert has mentioned GKChesterton
> > already re: The Man Who Would be Thursday.
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 16:27:24 -0700
> From: "sZ" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF King>Shade>Kinbote
>
> >>>I just noticed that there are two different ways in which the initial
"K"
> is
> used in the Index. When it's written in italics it refers to "Kinbote",
when
> it's not in italics it seems to refer to "the King". The pretence --
perhaps
> only the pretence of a pretence -- of a separation between Kinbote and
> Charles the Beloved *is* sustained in the Index after all.<<<
>
> Plus, all K entries are *K.* prior to the JF Shade entry.
>
> From the JF Shade entry on, all Ks are italicized.
>
> King -> Shade -> Kinbote
>
> And, while there are individual entries for G and K, there is no
individual
> entry for S.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 16:38:08 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Damian Hey <dhey92000@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Voltaire quote in Mason and Dixon
>
> - --0-2031458173-1063496288=:62977
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Hello, folks,
>
> I need help finding the origin of a quote.
>
> In Mason and Dixon, pg. 668, the infamous Mechanickal Duck reads a quote
attributed to Voltaire. The quote Pynchon writes in the novel is "...sans
la voix de la Le More et le Canard de Vaucanson, vous n'auriez rien que fit
ressouvenir de la gloire de la France."
>
> Now, there are many folks throughout the web who translate the phrase
"without the shitting duck of Vaucanson, there would be nothing to remember
of the glory of France."
> No one, however, is good enough to say where and when, or to whom, he said
this.
>
> Beyond this, The "shitting duck" translation is not of the French phrase
Pynchon wrote. (I am aware that the actual duck Vaucanson built both ate
and defecated, so "shitting duck" would be an apt phrase for Voltaire to
use). In the novel, Pynchon attributes the phrase to a letter written to
the Count and Countess d'Argental, and indeed Voltaire wrote many letters to
these folk.
>
> I have a couple of questions: 1) Did Voltaire actually say or write
something the same or similar to the two quotes up above, and if so, what
was it (French is fine...)?
>
> 2) To whom did he say it, and in what context? I need specifics -- letter
date, recipient...
>
> I appreciate any insight into this that you might have.
>
> Best,
> Damian
>
>
> - ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> - --0-2031458173-1063496288=:62977
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
>
> <DIV>Hello, folks,</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>I need help finding the origin of a quote.</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>In Mason and Dixon, pg. 668, the infamous Mechanickal Duck reads a
quote attributed to Voltaire. The quote Pynchon writes in the novel is
"...sans la voix de la Le More et le Canard de Vaucanson, vous n'auriez rien
que fit ressouvenir de la gloire de la France."</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>Now, there are many folks throughout the web who translate the phrase
"without the shitting duck of Vaucanson, there would be nothing to remember
of the glory of France." </DIV>
> <DIV>No one, however, is good enough to say where and when, or to whom, he
said this.</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>Beyond this, The "shitting duck" translation is not of the
French phrase Pynchon wrote. (I am aware that the actual duck
Vaucanson built both ate and defecated, so "shitting duck" would be an
apt phrase for Voltaire to use). In the novel, Pynchon attributes the
phrase to a letter written to the Count and Countess d'Argental, and indeed
Voltaire wrote many letters to these folk.</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>I have a couple of questions: 1) Did Voltaire actually say
or write something the same or similar to the two quotes up above, and if
so, what was it (French is fine...)?</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>2) To whom did he say it, and in what context? I need
specifics -- letter date, recipient...</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>I appreciate any insight into this that you might have.</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>Best,</DIV>
> <DIV>Damian </DIV><p><hr SIZE=1>
> Do you Yahoo!?<br>
> <a
href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=10469/*http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com">Yahoo!
SiteBuilder</a> - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> - --0-2031458173-1063496288=:62977--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 10:10:57 +1000
> From: jbor <jbor@bigpond.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF irresolution
>
> on 14/9/03 4:14 AM, Jasper Fidget wrote:
>
> > And why K instead of V (for Vseslav) or C (for Charles II)?
>
> Just to cloud the issue further, I guess. The other interesting thing is
the
> beginning note to the Index, which says that the "*capital letters G, K, S
> (which see) stand for the three main characters in this work.*" If these
> three are "characters" only it certainly begs the question of authorship,
> even if only in a Pirandello-esque sense.
>
> But the different uses of the italicised and unitalicised "K" initials in
> the Index wasn't something I'd noticed before.
>
> best
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 10:12:32 +1000
> From: jbor <jbor@bigpond.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF ps
>
> >>> What's the joke with Oleg and the tulip?
>
> Paul:
> >> Only thing that occurs to me is that the tulip is sometimes emblematic
> >> of a precious, effete person of the sort the manly prince hopes Oleg
has
> >> not turned into during their year of separation..
> >>
> on 14/9/03 3:49 AM, Jasper Fidget wrote:
>
> > I agree with Paul on why the tulip is funny; also just because it's set
in a
> > simple sentence like a punchline: "As he was returning, Oleg arrived.
He
> > carried a tulip." And tulip is a funny word.
>
> OK. I thought I must have been missing some pun or allusion. It is phrased
> in a matter-of-fact way which underscores the strangeness of it I guess,
> though it being 1928, they're being royalty, and the get-up Oleg's
wearing,
> make it seem somewhat less outlandish than it might otherwise have been. I
> got the sense that Oleg brought the tulip to Charles as a gift, or as a
> private symbol indicating the constancy of his affection for Charles (at
> least, Kinbote setting forth the scene and relationship in such a way).
And
> it'd only been "a fortnight" since their previous visit together, where
> they'd shared "the same bed" -- Charles' first sexual experience
apparently.
>
> best
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 10:50:34 +1000
> From: jbor <jbor@bigpond.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF irresolution
>
> on 14/9/03 4:14 AM, Jasper Fidget wrote:
>
> > All the people in the text have their names or initials italicized (eg
/S/
> > for Shade and /G/ for Gradus), except for K(ing).
>
> I think that "G", "K" and "S" are the only italicised ones in the text
> proper of the Index entries, as per that beginning note. For example, see
> the entry for "*B., Baron*" on the first page of the Index, which mentions
> "Baron A." unitalicised, or the mentions of "Prof. C. (not in the Index)"
> under the entry for "*Kinbote, Charles, Dr*", and "Prof. C." again in the
> entry for Shade.
>
> But I think Keith's right about the change in the "K" from unitalicised to
> italicised in the entry for Shade, and from then on.
>
> I don't know that the puzzle which has been set up here with these
initials
> and italics can ever be conclusively worked out either.
>
> best
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 18:16:16 -0700
> From: "sZ" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF irresolution
>
> >>>I don't know that the puzzle which has been set up here with these
> initials
> and italics can ever be conclusively worked out either.<<<
>
> Like Pynchon, Nabokov writes in a way that begs for solutions and leads to
> none.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 19:16:06 -0700
> From: "sZ" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: Re: Voltaire quote in Mason and Dixon
>
> >>>I have a couple of questions: 1) Did Voltaire actually say or write
> something the same or similar to the two quotes up above, and if so, what
> was it (French is fine...)?<<<
>
> You can search the Web for the history of the Shitting Duck quote made by
> Voltaire.
>
> Pynchon's variant reads something like:
>
> Le More is probably a reference to French love (l'amour), and the
Pynchonian
> variation on the quote attributed to Voltaire might be:
>
> "Without the voice of Love and the fabricated duck of Vaucanson, there is
> nothing you can do to remember the glory of France."
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 19:49:48 -0700
> From: "Roger E. Rustad, Jr." <scubacuda@iname.com>
> Subject: fake $200 Dubya bill
>
> Not exactly Pynchon-related, but will definitely resonate with many
> Pynchonphiles.
>
> http://www.thesmokinggun.com/doc_o_day/doc_o_day.html?yhnws
>
> SEPTEMBER 12--North Carolina cops are searching for a guy who successfully
> passed a $200 bill bearing George W. Bush's portrait and a drawing of the
> White House complete with lawn signs reading "We like ice cream" and "USA
> deserves a tax cut." The phony Bush bill--a copy of which you'll find
> below--was presented to a cashier at a Food Lion in Roanoke Rapids on
> September 6 by an unidentified male who was seeking to pay for $150 in
> groceries. Remarkably, the cashier accepted the counterfeit note and gave
> the man $50 change. In a separate incident involving a different perp,
> Roanoke Rapids cops Tuesday arrested Michael Harris, 24, for attempting
> last month to pass an identical $200 Bush bill at a convenience store.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> End of pynchon-l-digest V2 #3548
> ********************************
>
> To unsubscribe, send a message to waste@waste.org
> with "unsubscribe pynchon-l-digest" in the message body.
From: "pynchon-l-digest" <owner-pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
To: <pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2003 12:00 AM
Subject: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3548
>
> pynchon-l-digest Sunday, September 14 2003 Volume 02 : Number
3548
>
>
>
> Re: NPPF ps
> RE: NPPF ps
> RE: NPPF irresolution
> Re: NPPF Gunsmoke (reprise)
> Re: NPPF King>Shade>Kinbote
> Voltaire quote in Mason and Dixon
> Re: NPPF irresolution
> Re: NPPF ps
> Re: NPPF irresolution
> Re: NPPF irresolution
> Re: Voltaire quote in Mason and Dixon
> fake $200 Dubya bill
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: 13 Sep 2003 12:24:30 -0400
> From: Paul Mackin <paul.mackin@verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF ps
>
> On Sat, 2003-09-13 at 01:37, jbor wrote:
> > What's the joke with Oleg and the tulip?
>
>
> Only thing that occurs to me is that the tulip is sometimes emblematic
> of a precious, effete person of the sort the manly prince hopes Oleg has
> not turned into during their year of separation..
>
> P
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 13:49:24 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <fakename@verizon.net>
> Subject: RE: NPPF ps
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pynchon-l@waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l@waste.org] On
> > Behalf Of Paul Mackin
> > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2003 12:25 PM
> > To: pynchon-l@waste.org
> > Subject: Re: NPPF ps
> >
> > On Sat, 2003-09-13 at 01:37, jbor wrote:
> > > What's the joke with Oleg and the tulip?
> >
> >
> > Only thing that occurs to me is that the tulip is sometimes emblematic
> > of a precious, effete person of the sort the manly prince hopes Oleg has
> > not turned into during their year of separation..
> >
> > P
>
> I agree with Paul on why the tulip is funny; also just because it's set in
a
> simple sentence like a punchline: "As he was returning, Oleg arrived. He
> carried a tulip." And tulip is a funny word.
>
> Maybe Oleg is arriving from a tulip festival in the Netherlands (it's
May)?
> I can't find anything that stands out for tulips AND 1928, although May,
> 1928 is when tulips first arrived in Holland, Michigan -- they have a
"Tulip
> Time" festival every year.
>
> The Netherlands got their tulips in 1593 from Persia (like "the Persian
> lilacs in riotous bloom" that also connect to Oleg) and apparently went
> through a tulip craze that peaked around the time Charles II lived there
in
> exile. This was during the 80 Years War between the Dutch and Spain, and
> also the time of Rembrandt and Vermeer.
>
> http://www.personal.psu.edu/staff/r/v/rvs2/biol020/tulips.htm
> http://www.florissa.com/history/history.html
>
> Jasper
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 14:14:27 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <fakename@verizon.net>
> Subject: RE: NPPF irresolution
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pynchon-l@waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l@waste.org] On
> > Behalf Of jbor
> > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2003 1:34 AM
> > To: pynchon-l@waste.org
> > Subject: Re: NPPF irresolution
> >
> > on 13/9/03 3:22 PM, jbor wrote:
> >
> > > [Walter] Campbell, Scottish, born 1890, gets a reference and a bit
more
> > > biodata in the Index as "K's tutor" (King's? Kinbote's?). Monsieur
> > Beauchamp,
> > > who doesn't, is, I'm assuming, Oleg's tutor.
>
> Good catch, I hadn't noticed that -- Beauchamp sits down at Campbell's
> bedside just after Oleg arrives.
>
> >
> > I just noticed that there are two different ways in which the initial
"K"
> > is
> > used in the Index. When it's written in italics it refers to "Kinbote",
> > when
> > it's not in italics it seems to refer to "the King". The pretence --
> > perhaps
> > only the pretence of a pretence -- of a separation between Kinbote and
> > Charles the Beloved *is* sustained in the Index after all.
> >
> > best
>
> Interesting -- under Shade, John: "/K/'s spectacular arrival in the USA,
> 691" uses the italicized version. That's the note where the narrator goes
> from speaking of the king in the 3rd person to the 1st. In fact they're
all
> italicized under "Shade" -- it seems like it's the subject of the entry
that
> determines whether or not to use italics. I haven't found any entries
that
> have both, and it seems all the Zembla entries have K while all the New
Wye
> entries have /K/.
>
> And check out the entry for /K/: "see Charles II and Kinbote."
>
> All the people in the text have their names or initials italicized (eg /S/
> for Shade and /G/ for Gradus), except for K(ing).
>
> And why K instead of V (for Vseslav) or C (for Charles II)?
>
> Jasper
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 18:05:57 -0400
> From: "charles albert" <calbert@hslboxmaster.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Gunsmoke (reprise)
>
> uh, well........yeah.....
>
> and the critical GKC modality is "paradox"........
>
> but I probably didn't communicate that very well...
>
> glad to see him back in play though.....
>
>
> love,
> cfa
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "sZ" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> To: <pynchon-l@waste.org>
> Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 7:32 PM
> Subject: Re: NPPF Gunsmoke (reprise)
>
>
> > Looking back through NPPF I see that cfalbert has mentioned GKChesterton
> > already re: The Man Who Would be Thursday.
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 16:27:24 -0700
> From: "sZ" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF King>Shade>Kinbote
>
> >>>I just noticed that there are two different ways in which the initial
"K"
> is
> used in the Index. When it's written in italics it refers to "Kinbote",
when
> it's not in italics it seems to refer to "the King". The pretence --
perhaps
> only the pretence of a pretence -- of a separation between Kinbote and
> Charles the Beloved *is* sustained in the Index after all.<<<
>
> Plus, all K entries are *K.* prior to the JF Shade entry.
>
> From the JF Shade entry on, all Ks are italicized.
>
> King -> Shade -> Kinbote
>
> And, while there are individual entries for G and K, there is no
individual
> entry for S.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 16:38:08 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Damian Hey <dhey92000@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Voltaire quote in Mason and Dixon
>
> - --0-2031458173-1063496288=:62977
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Hello, folks,
>
> I need help finding the origin of a quote.
>
> In Mason and Dixon, pg. 668, the infamous Mechanickal Duck reads a quote
attributed to Voltaire. The quote Pynchon writes in the novel is "...sans
la voix de la Le More et le Canard de Vaucanson, vous n'auriez rien que fit
ressouvenir de la gloire de la France."
>
> Now, there are many folks throughout the web who translate the phrase
"without the shitting duck of Vaucanson, there would be nothing to remember
of the glory of France."
> No one, however, is good enough to say where and when, or to whom, he said
this.
>
> Beyond this, The "shitting duck" translation is not of the French phrase
Pynchon wrote. (I am aware that the actual duck Vaucanson built both ate
and defecated, so "shitting duck" would be an apt phrase for Voltaire to
use). In the novel, Pynchon attributes the phrase to a letter written to
the Count and Countess d'Argental, and indeed Voltaire wrote many letters to
these folk.
>
> I have a couple of questions: 1) Did Voltaire actually say or write
something the same or similar to the two quotes up above, and if so, what
was it (French is fine...)?
>
> 2) To whom did he say it, and in what context? I need specifics -- letter
date, recipient...
>
> I appreciate any insight into this that you might have.
>
> Best,
> Damian
>
>
> - ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> - --0-2031458173-1063496288=:62977
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
>
> <DIV>Hello, folks,</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>I need help finding the origin of a quote.</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>In Mason and Dixon, pg. 668, the infamous Mechanickal Duck reads a
quote attributed to Voltaire. The quote Pynchon writes in the novel is
"...sans la voix de la Le More et le Canard de Vaucanson, vous n'auriez rien
que fit ressouvenir de la gloire de la France."</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>Now, there are many folks throughout the web who translate the phrase
"without the shitting duck of Vaucanson, there would be nothing to remember
of the glory of France." </DIV>
> <DIV>No one, however, is good enough to say where and when, or to whom, he
said this.</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>Beyond this, The "shitting duck" translation is not of the
French phrase Pynchon wrote. (I am aware that the actual duck
Vaucanson built both ate and defecated, so "shitting duck" would be an
apt phrase for Voltaire to use). In the novel, Pynchon attributes the
phrase to a letter written to the Count and Countess d'Argental, and indeed
Voltaire wrote many letters to these folk.</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>I have a couple of questions: 1) Did Voltaire actually say
or write something the same or similar to the two quotes up above, and if
so, what was it (French is fine...)?</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>2) To whom did he say it, and in what context? I need
specifics -- letter date, recipient...</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>I appreciate any insight into this that you might have.</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>Best,</DIV>
> <DIV>Damian </DIV><p><hr SIZE=1>
> Do you Yahoo!?<br>
> <a
href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=10469/*http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com">Yahoo!
SiteBuilder</a> - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> - --0-2031458173-1063496288=:62977--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 10:10:57 +1000
> From: jbor <jbor@bigpond.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF irresolution
>
> on 14/9/03 4:14 AM, Jasper Fidget wrote:
>
> > And why K instead of V (for Vseslav) or C (for Charles II)?
>
> Just to cloud the issue further, I guess. The other interesting thing is
the
> beginning note to the Index, which says that the "*capital letters G, K, S
> (which see) stand for the three main characters in this work.*" If these
> three are "characters" only it certainly begs the question of authorship,
> even if only in a Pirandello-esque sense.
>
> But the different uses of the italicised and unitalicised "K" initials in
> the Index wasn't something I'd noticed before.
>
> best
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 10:12:32 +1000
> From: jbor <jbor@bigpond.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF ps
>
> >>> What's the joke with Oleg and the tulip?
>
> Paul:
> >> Only thing that occurs to me is that the tulip is sometimes emblematic
> >> of a precious, effete person of the sort the manly prince hopes Oleg
has
> >> not turned into during their year of separation..
> >>
> on 14/9/03 3:49 AM, Jasper Fidget wrote:
>
> > I agree with Paul on why the tulip is funny; also just because it's set
in a
> > simple sentence like a punchline: "As he was returning, Oleg arrived.
He
> > carried a tulip." And tulip is a funny word.
>
> OK. I thought I must have been missing some pun or allusion. It is phrased
> in a matter-of-fact way which underscores the strangeness of it I guess,
> though it being 1928, they're being royalty, and the get-up Oleg's
wearing,
> make it seem somewhat less outlandish than it might otherwise have been. I
> got the sense that Oleg brought the tulip to Charles as a gift, or as a
> private symbol indicating the constancy of his affection for Charles (at
> least, Kinbote setting forth the scene and relationship in such a way).
And
> it'd only been "a fortnight" since their previous visit together, where
> they'd shared "the same bed" -- Charles' first sexual experience
apparently.
>
> best
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 10:50:34 +1000
> From: jbor <jbor@bigpond.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF irresolution
>
> on 14/9/03 4:14 AM, Jasper Fidget wrote:
>
> > All the people in the text have their names or initials italicized (eg
/S/
> > for Shade and /G/ for Gradus), except for K(ing).
>
> I think that "G", "K" and "S" are the only italicised ones in the text
> proper of the Index entries, as per that beginning note. For example, see
> the entry for "*B., Baron*" on the first page of the Index, which mentions
> "Baron A." unitalicised, or the mentions of "Prof. C. (not in the Index)"
> under the entry for "*Kinbote, Charles, Dr*", and "Prof. C." again in the
> entry for Shade.
>
> But I think Keith's right about the change in the "K" from unitalicised to
> italicised in the entry for Shade, and from then on.
>
> I don't know that the puzzle which has been set up here with these
initials
> and italics can ever be conclusively worked out either.
>
> best
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 18:16:16 -0700
> From: "sZ" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF irresolution
>
> >>>I don't know that the puzzle which has been set up here with these
> initials
> and italics can ever be conclusively worked out either.<<<
>
> Like Pynchon, Nabokov writes in a way that begs for solutions and leads to
> none.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 19:16:06 -0700
> From: "sZ" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: Re: Voltaire quote in Mason and Dixon
>
> >>>I have a couple of questions: 1) Did Voltaire actually say or write
> something the same or similar to the two quotes up above, and if so, what
> was it (French is fine...)?<<<
>
> You can search the Web for the history of the Shitting Duck quote made by
> Voltaire.
>
> Pynchon's variant reads something like:
>
> Le More is probably a reference to French love (l'amour), and the
Pynchonian
> variation on the quote attributed to Voltaire might be:
>
> "Without the voice of Love and the fabricated duck of Vaucanson, there is
> nothing you can do to remember the glory of France."
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 19:49:48 -0700
> From: "Roger E. Rustad, Jr." <scubacuda@iname.com>
> Subject: fake $200 Dubya bill
>
> Not exactly Pynchon-related, but will definitely resonate with many
> Pynchonphiles.
>
> http://www.thesmokinggun.com/doc_o_day/doc_o_day.html?yhnws
>
> SEPTEMBER 12--North Carolina cops are searching for a guy who successfully
> passed a $200 bill bearing George W. Bush's portrait and a drawing of the
> White House complete with lawn signs reading "We like ice cream" and "USA
> deserves a tax cut." The phony Bush bill--a copy of which you'll find
> below--was presented to a cashier at a Food Lion in Roanoke Rapids on
> September 6 by an unidentified male who was seeking to pay for $150 in
> groceries. Remarkably, the cashier accepted the counterfeit note and gave
> the man $50 change. In a separate incident involving a different perp,
> Roanoke Rapids cops Tuesday arrested Michael Harris, 24, for attempting
> last month to pass an identical $200 Bush bill at a convenience store.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> End of pynchon-l-digest V2 #3548
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