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Fw: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3600 PALE FIRE
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----- Original Message -----
From: "pynchon-l-digest" <owner-pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
To: <pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 12:00 AM
Subject: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3600
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 10:25:29 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <fakename@verizon.net>
> Subject: RE: NPPF Commentary 238, P. 168, Part I
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pynchon-l@waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l@waste.org] On
> > Behalf Of Vince & Shelly Maeder
> >
>
> > Mr. Kinbote then recounts his many nature walks with Mr. Shade
>
> Kinbote notes that the frequency of the walks had dwindled "to two in the
> first three weeks of July" but that "they shall be resumed Elsewhere!"
> Elsewhere as Afterlife (he probably didn't mean Cedarn, Utana, since his
> reference to his "notes" implies he's already there when C.238 is
written);
> I'm not sure it adds to the evidence for Kinbote and suicide (it's
expressed
> pretty enthusiastically for that) but it may add to his reasons for ending
> his life -- in order to join Shade Elsewhere (which fits in neatly with
the
> "empty emerald case" and all the transformation themes). Thus a slight
> return of the Romeo & Juliet / Tristan & Isolde motif.
>
> Jasper
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 10:25:32 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <fakename@verizon.net>
> Subject: RE: NPPF Commentary Line 238, P. 168, Part II
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pynchon-l@waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l@waste.org] On
> > Behalf Of Vince & Shelly Maeder
>
> >
> > 2) Also referenced are the preservative properties (embalming of the
> > ant) of amber. This is a particularly good metaphor for the
> > "preservation" Mr. Kinbote has attempted to perform on Mr. Shade's canto
> > as well as his attempt to preserve his real or imagined history as
> > Zemblan king. But, which is the cicada, what is the amber, and who is
> > the ant?
>
> Also, who is the locust? Kinbote as locust devouring Shade's crops....
But
> only an "ignorant settler" would think that!
>
> Jasper
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 10:55:03 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <fakename@verizon.net>
> Subject: RE: NPPF Commentary 238, P. 168, Part I
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pynchon-l@waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l@waste.org] On
> > Behalf Of Vince & Shelly Maeder
>
> >
> > At the end of the passage, there is an extended reference to King
> > Alfred and Mr. Shade's attempt to stop Mr. Kinbote's repeated attempts
> > to bring up his own references to Zembla (making it more apparent that
> > his harassment of Mr. Shade in this area was not very subtle). The last
> > line of the comment refers us out to his note at line 802.
> >
>
> Othere was a Norse explorer whose account of his arctic voyages (which
> almost made it all the way Novaya Zemlya) King Alfred included in the
> introduction to his translation of Orosius' 5th century _The Universal
> History_.
>
> http://www.bartleby.com/65/oh/Ohthere.html
> http://www.ucalgary.ca/UofC/eduweb/engl401/texts/ohthtext.htm
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orosius
>
> See also Longfellow's "The Discoverer of the North Cape"
>
> http://www.readbookonline.net/readOnLine/1209/
>
> Jasper
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 17:51:02 +0200
> From: "Otto" <ottosell@yahoo.de>
> Subject: Re: VLVL The Wayvones; drugs
>
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jbor" <jbor@bigpond.com>
>
> Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 10:02:38 -0700
> From: "Vince & Shelly Maeder" <maeder@dwave.net>
> Subject: RE: NPPF Commentary 238, P. 168, Part I
>
> Yes, and the idea that Kinbote's life is dependent upon Shade's life.
> Kinbote's imagination is dependent upon Shade's recognition. Perhaps,
> Mr. Shade is mere a figment of Mr. Kinbote; Mr. Shade's death in his
> imagination leads to a singular personality in the mind of the true
> author who realizes he cannot live alone... Anyone see IDENTITY with
> John Cusak?? Then you know what I'm aiming at here... V.
>
> From: Jasper Fidget
> > From: Vince & Shelly Maeder
> >
> > Mr. Kinbote then recounts his many nature walks with Mr. Shade
>
> Kinbote notes that the frequency of the walks had dwindled "to two in
> the
> first three weeks of July" but that "they shall be resumed Elsewhere!"
> Elsewhere as Afterlife (he probably didn't mean Cedarn, Utana, since his
> reference to his "notes" implies he's already there when C.238 is
> written);
> I'm not sure it adds to the evidence for Kinbote and suicide (it's
> expressed
> pretty enthusiastically for that) but it may add to his reasons for
> ending
> his life -- in order to join Shade Elsewhere (which fits in neatly with
> the
> "empty emerald case" and all the transformation themes). Thus a slight
> return of the Romeo & Juliet / Tristan & Isolde motif.
>
> Jasper
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 10:04:07 -0700
> From: "Vince & Shelly Maeder" <maeder@dwave.net>
> Subject: RE: NPPF Commentary 238, P. 168, Part I
>
> Thank you, I was headed to Othello, but I've changed course. V.
>
> From: Jasper Fidget
> > From: Vince & Shelly Maeder
> > At the end of the passage, there is an extended reference to King
> > Alfred and Mr. Shade's attempt to stop Mr. Kinbote's repeated attempts
> > to bring up his own references to Zembla (making it more apparent that
> > his harassment of Mr. Shade in this area was not very subtle). The
> last
> > line of the comment refers us out to his note at line 802.
>
> Othere was a Norse explorer whose account of his arctic voyages (which
> almost made it all the way Novaya Zemlya) King Alfred included in the
> introduction to his translation of Orosius' 5th century _The Universal
> History_.
>
> http://www.bartleby.com/65/oh/Ohthere.html
> http://www.ucalgary.ca/UofC/eduweb/engl401/texts/ohthtext.htm
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orosius
>
> See also Longfellow's "The Discoverer of the North Cape"
>
> http://www.readbookonline.net/readOnLine/1209/
>
> Jasper
>
> ------------------------------
> End of pynchon-l-digest V2 #3600
> ********************************
>
> To unsubscribe, send a message to waste@waste.org
> with "unsubscribe pynchon-l-digest" in the message body.
From: "pynchon-l-digest" <owner-pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
To: <pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 12:00 AM
Subject: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3600
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 10:25:29 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <fakename@verizon.net>
> Subject: RE: NPPF Commentary 238, P. 168, Part I
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pynchon-l@waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l@waste.org] On
> > Behalf Of Vince & Shelly Maeder
> >
>
> > Mr. Kinbote then recounts his many nature walks with Mr. Shade
>
> Kinbote notes that the frequency of the walks had dwindled "to two in the
> first three weeks of July" but that "they shall be resumed Elsewhere!"
> Elsewhere as Afterlife (he probably didn't mean Cedarn, Utana, since his
> reference to his "notes" implies he's already there when C.238 is
written);
> I'm not sure it adds to the evidence for Kinbote and suicide (it's
expressed
> pretty enthusiastically for that) but it may add to his reasons for ending
> his life -- in order to join Shade Elsewhere (which fits in neatly with
the
> "empty emerald case" and all the transformation themes). Thus a slight
> return of the Romeo & Juliet / Tristan & Isolde motif.
>
> Jasper
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 10:25:32 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <fakename@verizon.net>
> Subject: RE: NPPF Commentary Line 238, P. 168, Part II
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pynchon-l@waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l@waste.org] On
> > Behalf Of Vince & Shelly Maeder
>
> >
> > 2) Also referenced are the preservative properties (embalming of the
> > ant) of amber. This is a particularly good metaphor for the
> > "preservation" Mr. Kinbote has attempted to perform on Mr. Shade's canto
> > as well as his attempt to preserve his real or imagined history as
> > Zemblan king. But, which is the cicada, what is the amber, and who is
> > the ant?
>
> Also, who is the locust? Kinbote as locust devouring Shade's crops....
But
> only an "ignorant settler" would think that!
>
> Jasper
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 10:55:03 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <fakename@verizon.net>
> Subject: RE: NPPF Commentary 238, P. 168, Part I
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pynchon-l@waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l@waste.org] On
> > Behalf Of Vince & Shelly Maeder
>
> >
> > At the end of the passage, there is an extended reference to King
> > Alfred and Mr. Shade's attempt to stop Mr. Kinbote's repeated attempts
> > to bring up his own references to Zembla (making it more apparent that
> > his harassment of Mr. Shade in this area was not very subtle). The last
> > line of the comment refers us out to his note at line 802.
> >
>
> Othere was a Norse explorer whose account of his arctic voyages (which
> almost made it all the way Novaya Zemlya) King Alfred included in the
> introduction to his translation of Orosius' 5th century _The Universal
> History_.
>
> http://www.bartleby.com/65/oh/Ohthere.html
> http://www.ucalgary.ca/UofC/eduweb/engl401/texts/ohthtext.htm
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orosius
>
> See also Longfellow's "The Discoverer of the North Cape"
>
> http://www.readbookonline.net/readOnLine/1209/
>
> Jasper
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 17:51:02 +0200
> From: "Otto" <ottosell@yahoo.de>
> Subject: Re: VLVL The Wayvones; drugs
>
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jbor" <jbor@bigpond.com>
>
> Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 10:02:38 -0700
> From: "Vince & Shelly Maeder" <maeder@dwave.net>
> Subject: RE: NPPF Commentary 238, P. 168, Part I
>
> Yes, and the idea that Kinbote's life is dependent upon Shade's life.
> Kinbote's imagination is dependent upon Shade's recognition. Perhaps,
> Mr. Shade is mere a figment of Mr. Kinbote; Mr. Shade's death in his
> imagination leads to a singular personality in the mind of the true
> author who realizes he cannot live alone... Anyone see IDENTITY with
> John Cusak?? Then you know what I'm aiming at here... V.
>
> From: Jasper Fidget
> > From: Vince & Shelly Maeder
> >
> > Mr. Kinbote then recounts his many nature walks with Mr. Shade
>
> Kinbote notes that the frequency of the walks had dwindled "to two in
> the
> first three weeks of July" but that "they shall be resumed Elsewhere!"
> Elsewhere as Afterlife (he probably didn't mean Cedarn, Utana, since his
> reference to his "notes" implies he's already there when C.238 is
> written);
> I'm not sure it adds to the evidence for Kinbote and suicide (it's
> expressed
> pretty enthusiastically for that) but it may add to his reasons for
> ending
> his life -- in order to join Shade Elsewhere (which fits in neatly with
> the
> "empty emerald case" and all the transformation themes). Thus a slight
> return of the Romeo & Juliet / Tristan & Isolde motif.
>
> Jasper
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 10:04:07 -0700
> From: "Vince & Shelly Maeder" <maeder@dwave.net>
> Subject: RE: NPPF Commentary 238, P. 168, Part I
>
> Thank you, I was headed to Othello, but I've changed course. V.
>
> From: Jasper Fidget
> > From: Vince & Shelly Maeder
> > At the end of the passage, there is an extended reference to King
> > Alfred and Mr. Shade's attempt to stop Mr. Kinbote's repeated attempts
> > to bring up his own references to Zembla (making it more apparent that
> > his harassment of Mr. Shade in this area was not very subtle). The
> last
> > line of the comment refers us out to his note at line 802.
>
> Othere was a Norse explorer whose account of his arctic voyages (which
> almost made it all the way Novaya Zemlya) King Alfred included in the
> introduction to his translation of Orosius' 5th century _The Universal
> History_.
>
> http://www.bartleby.com/65/oh/Ohthere.html
> http://www.ucalgary.ca/UofC/eduweb/engl401/texts/ohthtext.htm
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orosius
>
> See also Longfellow's "The Discoverer of the North Cape"
>
> http://www.readbookonline.net/readOnLine/1209/
>
> Jasper
>
> ------------------------------
> End of pynchon-l-digest V2 #3600
> ********************************
>
> To unsubscribe, send a message to waste@waste.org
> with "unsubscribe pynchon-l-digest" in the message body.