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Fw: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3621 PALE FIRE
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From: "pynchon-l-digest" <owner-pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
To: <pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 11:00 PM
Subject: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3621
>
> pynchon-l-digest Saturday, October 25 2003 Volume 02 : Number
3621
>
>
>
> RE: NPPF: Commentary 5 (notes) Lines 433-434
> Search Pynchon on amazon
> Re: NPPF "You are telling me!"
> Re: NPPF "You are telling me!"
> Re: NPPF "You are telling me!"
> Re: NPPF "You are telling me!"
> Re: The intellectual origins of America-Bashing
> VLVL2 Host List?
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 18:20:53 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <fakename@verizon.net>
> Subject: RE: NPPF: Commentary 5 (notes) Lines 433-434
>
> > From: owner-pynchon-l@waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l@waste.org] On
> > Behalf Of bekah
>
> >
> > ** "Sybil is idealized, but then, Kinbote has romanticized and idealized
> > his vision of Zembla as well as his relationship with Shade so he's
> > obviously going to defend the whole process. Idealization as reflection,
> > mirror? Reading as mirror?
> >
> >
>
> OR to what extent is Disa is mirror of Sybil, a reflection in Kinbote's
past
> of Shade's present? He's even worked out where Sybil *should* be --
exiled
> in some other country. Supporting your idea, there's some proximity to
the
> reference to the Frost poem with it's "two closing lines identical in
every
> syllable, but one personal and physical, and the other metaphysical and
> universal" -- Sybil and Disa? Sybil and Sybil-idealized?
>
> >
> > page 210
> >
> > ** Charles betrayed Disa with Phrynia or Timandra? (is this a
> > heterosexual reference or a scholarly one? Did he spend too much time
with
> > his studies of Shakespeare? Or did he actually bed the ladies?
> >
> > Phrynia:
> > Origin: Shakespearean
> > Meaning: 'The Life of Timon of Athens'
> >
>
> Phrynia and Timandra, Mistresses to Alcibiades. Timon calls them harlots,
> whores, and sluts, and they agree that they'll "do anything for gold"
> (IV:iii). I think the reference is both sexual and scholarly for Kinbote,
> as he's mixed (or confused) the two elsewhere. I doubt they stand in for
> two real women in Charles' life though.
>
> Just to take note of it, in this same passage there's another reprise of
the
> endless mirror reflection of Fleur nymphs in Charles' tower (p. 111), then
> mirrored with "an endless sequence of green-shorted Kinbotes" (p. 183):
>
> "This love was like an endless wringing of hands, like a blundering of the
> soul through an infinite maze of hopelessness and remorse" (p. 210).
>
> Unlike Shade, Kinbote seems quite tormented by infinite sequences. Could
it
> be he fears the afterlife while consciously yearning for it?
>
> Jasper Fidget
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 19:53:55 -0400
> From: "Harold Lewis" <hal13@adelphia.net>
> Subject: Search Pynchon on amazon
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> - ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C39A68.8ECE8000
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> Something you might like to try.
>
> Amazon com. has introduced a new feature which allows you to search =
> every word of a selected book. I tried some GR and it did a great job.
>
> Searchon.
> hal
>
>
>
> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 17:19:23 -0700
> From: "Glenn Scheper" <glenn_scheper@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF "You are telling me!"
>
> > I think this constant barrage of AF propaganda does an enormous
> > disservice to the life and work of these authors and poets.
>
> I note jbor's exception.
>
> Perhaps it's time for a straw poll. Do I annony more than inform?
>
> I do value the idea that my narrow niche ideas are being left in
> an archive probably more permanent than my own personal web site.
>
> A less strident aside:
>
> Today, while working on reading the arcana, I had one of those
> 'other' voices in my head. Not my own voice, and probably not an
> aspect of me, because it addressed me as "you" and seemed to be
> able to see me, although I am ostensibly alone at my computer,
> saying, with empathy, "You look <....>". And, what seems really
> magical, is that the <....> contained two words simultaneously,
> "tired" and "bored", both words mentally "heard", both exactly
> simultaneous, and not interfering with each other.
>
> Of course, this could just be an aspect of consiousness on the
> model of a collaborative data sharing blackboard in a race
> condition, or perhaps the communicating entity had a concept
> that imperfectly maps into my English capabilities.
>
> Little things like that, when I otherwise decry you cannot infer
> anything about death from records of poetic death, give me faith.
>
> Yours truly,
> Glenn Scheper
> http://home.earthlink.net/~glenn_scheper/
> glenn_scheper + at + earthlink.net
> Copyleft(!) Forward freely.
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 19:49:33 -0500
> From: "Tim Strzechowski" <dedalus204@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF "You are telling me!"
>
> Shame on Rob. I thought he was a bit more tolerant of varying
> interpretations.
>
> While I don't understand much of what you post, Glenn, I see *nothing*
wrong
> whatsoever with your postings. You provide substantive analysis of the
text
> in question, and your contributions to this forum offer a unique, albeit
> complex, perspective on the process of reading and the text itself.
>
> I welcome your sort of discourse far more than the insulting obscenities
> that some listers deem as "contributions." Fortunately, some of those
> listers haven't been heard from in these parts for some time.
>
> Please continue to post here, Glenn. I may not "get" what you're saying,
> but I'm sure there's lurkers out there who do! : )
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Tim S.
>
>
> Glenn sed:
>
> >
> > I note jbor's exception.
> >
> > Perhaps it's time for a straw poll. Do I annony more than inform?
> >
> > I do value the idea that my narrow niche ideas are being left in
> > an archive probably more permanent than my own personal web site.
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> >
>
> To unsubscribe, send a message to waste@waste.org
> with "unsubscribe pynchon-l-digest" in the message body.
From: "pynchon-l-digest" <owner-pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
To: <pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 11:00 PM
Subject: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3621
>
> pynchon-l-digest Saturday, October 25 2003 Volume 02 : Number
3621
>
>
>
> RE: NPPF: Commentary 5 (notes) Lines 433-434
> Search Pynchon on amazon
> Re: NPPF "You are telling me!"
> Re: NPPF "You are telling me!"
> Re: NPPF "You are telling me!"
> Re: NPPF "You are telling me!"
> Re: The intellectual origins of America-Bashing
> VLVL2 Host List?
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 18:20:53 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <fakename@verizon.net>
> Subject: RE: NPPF: Commentary 5 (notes) Lines 433-434
>
> > From: owner-pynchon-l@waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l@waste.org] On
> > Behalf Of bekah
>
> >
> > ** "Sybil is idealized, but then, Kinbote has romanticized and idealized
> > his vision of Zembla as well as his relationship with Shade so he's
> > obviously going to defend the whole process. Idealization as reflection,
> > mirror? Reading as mirror?
> >
> >
>
> OR to what extent is Disa is mirror of Sybil, a reflection in Kinbote's
past
> of Shade's present? He's even worked out where Sybil *should* be --
exiled
> in some other country. Supporting your idea, there's some proximity to
the
> reference to the Frost poem with it's "two closing lines identical in
every
> syllable, but one personal and physical, and the other metaphysical and
> universal" -- Sybil and Disa? Sybil and Sybil-idealized?
>
> >
> > page 210
> >
> > ** Charles betrayed Disa with Phrynia or Timandra? (is this a
> > heterosexual reference or a scholarly one? Did he spend too much time
with
> > his studies of Shakespeare? Or did he actually bed the ladies?
> >
> > Phrynia:
> > Origin: Shakespearean
> > Meaning: 'The Life of Timon of Athens'
> >
>
> Phrynia and Timandra, Mistresses to Alcibiades. Timon calls them harlots,
> whores, and sluts, and they agree that they'll "do anything for gold"
> (IV:iii). I think the reference is both sexual and scholarly for Kinbote,
> as he's mixed (or confused) the two elsewhere. I doubt they stand in for
> two real women in Charles' life though.
>
> Just to take note of it, in this same passage there's another reprise of
the
> endless mirror reflection of Fleur nymphs in Charles' tower (p. 111), then
> mirrored with "an endless sequence of green-shorted Kinbotes" (p. 183):
>
> "This love was like an endless wringing of hands, like a blundering of the
> soul through an infinite maze of hopelessness and remorse" (p. 210).
>
> Unlike Shade, Kinbote seems quite tormented by infinite sequences. Could
it
> be he fears the afterlife while consciously yearning for it?
>
> Jasper Fidget
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 19:53:55 -0400
> From: "Harold Lewis" <hal13@adelphia.net>
> Subject: Search Pynchon on amazon
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> - ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C39A68.8ECE8000
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> Something you might like to try.
>
> Amazon com. has introduced a new feature which allows you to search =
> every word of a selected book. I tried some GR and it did a great job.
>
> Searchon.
> hal
>
>
>
> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 17:19:23 -0700
> From: "Glenn Scheper" <glenn_scheper@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF "You are telling me!"
>
> > I think this constant barrage of AF propaganda does an enormous
> > disservice to the life and work of these authors and poets.
>
> I note jbor's exception.
>
> Perhaps it's time for a straw poll. Do I annony more than inform?
>
> I do value the idea that my narrow niche ideas are being left in
> an archive probably more permanent than my own personal web site.
>
> A less strident aside:
>
> Today, while working on reading the arcana, I had one of those
> 'other' voices in my head. Not my own voice, and probably not an
> aspect of me, because it addressed me as "you" and seemed to be
> able to see me, although I am ostensibly alone at my computer,
> saying, with empathy, "You look <....>". And, what seems really
> magical, is that the <....> contained two words simultaneously,
> "tired" and "bored", both words mentally "heard", both exactly
> simultaneous, and not interfering with each other.
>
> Of course, this could just be an aspect of consiousness on the
> model of a collaborative data sharing blackboard in a race
> condition, or perhaps the communicating entity had a concept
> that imperfectly maps into my English capabilities.
>
> Little things like that, when I otherwise decry you cannot infer
> anything about death from records of poetic death, give me faith.
>
> Yours truly,
> Glenn Scheper
> http://home.earthlink.net/~glenn_scheper/
> glenn_scheper + at + earthlink.net
> Copyleft(!) Forward freely.
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 19:49:33 -0500
> From: "Tim Strzechowski" <dedalus204@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF "You are telling me!"
>
> Shame on Rob. I thought he was a bit more tolerant of varying
> interpretations.
>
> While I don't understand much of what you post, Glenn, I see *nothing*
wrong
> whatsoever with your postings. You provide substantive analysis of the
text
> in question, and your contributions to this forum offer a unique, albeit
> complex, perspective on the process of reading and the text itself.
>
> I welcome your sort of discourse far more than the insulting obscenities
> that some listers deem as "contributions." Fortunately, some of those
> listers haven't been heard from in these parts for some time.
>
> Please continue to post here, Glenn. I may not "get" what you're saying,
> but I'm sure there's lurkers out there who do! : )
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Tim S.
>
>
> Glenn sed:
>
> >
> > I note jbor's exception.
> >
> > Perhaps it's time for a straw poll. Do I annony more than inform?
> >
> > I do value the idea that my narrow niche ideas are being left in
> > an archive probably more permanent than my own personal web site.
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> >
>
> To unsubscribe, send a message to waste@waste.org
> with "unsubscribe pynchon-l-digest" in the message body.