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Fw: Fw: Andrew Brown on nun & chronology
From
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Brown" <as-brown@comcast.net>
> ---------------- Message requiring your approval (167
lines) ------------------
> Ms. Kunin,
>
> That's fascinating. I did not know that. I wouldn't be in the least
> surprised if that was in Nabokov's mind, or that he may have intended it
to
> be in Shade's mind.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "D. Barton Johnson" <chtodel@cox.net>
> To: <NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
> Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 12:46 PM
> Subject: Fw: Fw: Andrew Brown on nun & chronology
>
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Sergej Aksenov" <aksenov@onetel.net.uk>
> > To: <chtodel@COX.NET>
> > Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 5:56 AM
> > Subject: Fwd: Fw: Andrew Brown on nun & chronology
> >
> >
> > Dear Don, I believe my message below was lost. Could please you consider
> > posting it again?
> > Thanks
> > Sergej
> >
> > From: "L-Soft list server at UC Santa Barbara (1.8d)"
> > <LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
> > Date: Tue Nov 26, 2002 11:17:27 Europe/London
> > To: aksenov@onetel.net.uk
> > Subject: Message ("Your message dated Tue, 26 Nov 2002 23:17:27...")
> >
> > Your message dated Tue, 26 Nov 2002 23:17:27 +0000 with subject "Re:
> Fw:
> > Andrew Brown on nun & chronology" has been submitted to the moderator of
> the
> > NABOKV-L list: chtodel@COX.NET.
> >
> >
> > Begin forwarded message:
> >
> > > From: Sergej Aksenov <aksenov@onetel.net.uk>
> > > Date: Tue Nov 26, 2002 11:17:27 Europe/London
> > > To: Vladimir Nabokov Forum <NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
> > > Subject: Re: Fw: Andrew Brown on nun & chronology
> > >
> > > I don't know if it has been noted before (my apologies for the
> repetition
> > > if so), but I wonder if the rumour of the king escaping disguised as a
> nun
> > > can be a reference to the historic fact of Alexander Kerensky's
> (Russia's
> > > last prime minister deposed by Bolsheviks in 1917) escape from
> Petrograd,
> > > disguised as a woman.
> > >
> > > Sergej
> > >
> > > On Tuesday, November 26, 2002, at 03:15 , D. Barton Johnson wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: Andrew Brown
> > >> To: Vladimir Nabokov Forum
> > >> Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 6:39 PM
> > >> Subject: Re: Andrew Brown on nun & chronology
> > >>
> > >> Ms. Kunin,
> > >>
> > >> Here's how I read this. It's the professor of physics, " a so-called
> > Pink,
> > >> " who says claims "That sorry ruler is known to have escaped
disguised
> as
> > >> a nun."
> > >>
> > >> Shade then states that he has it from Kinbote (pointing) that the nun
> > >> story was a vulgar invention of the Extremists and their friends" to
> > >> conceal their (the Extremist's) discomfiture. The truth according to
> > >> Shade,
> > >> who got it from Kinbote, is that the King escaped not as a "pale
> > >> spinster"
> > >> but as an athlete in scarlet.
> > >>
> > >> So, a complete opposite: not pale spinster but red satyr considering
> the
> > >> King's apparently insatiable antics in Zembla and Kinbote's multiple
> ping
> > >> pong partners at Wordsmith. I think that Nabokov's intention in both
> > >> the reference to a future nun "roommate" (whose I don't know, but you
> > >> know my
> > >> thoughts on this word choice) sitting with Hazel, and the second
> > >> reference,
> > >> in the commentary, to a fake nun, are both separate statements of
> about
> > >> a certain tupe of marginal person -- non-sexual persons.
> > >>
> > >> In the first case, with Hazel, her companion would naturally, to
Shade,
> > >> be a fellow non-participant in life's amatory games, and in the
second
> > >> case,
> > >> the least probable disguise for a randy king (and a choice of
disguise
> > >> that would presumably be the most annoying to the exiled king who has
> to
> > >> suffer the imputation of having resorted to it) would be that of a
> woman
> > >> and a non-sexual woman at that.
> > >>
> > >> What I think is most interesting in this couple of pages of
commentary
> is
> > >> 1. Shade admitting to having been said to resemble the "slapdash
> > >> disheveled hag" in the cafeteria, and 2. the strange unease of "Good
> > >> Netochka" who is singularly uncomfortable during this exchange, and
who
> > >> "hastily" interrupts talk about the king to say, irrelevantly, that
the
> > >> Goldsworths are having a wonderful time.
> > >>
> > >> I think "Netochka" Natochdag is one of the most significant
characters
> in
> > >> the book. Note that he is not mentioned in the index.
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: D. Barton Johnson
> > >> To: NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU
> > >> Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 1:46 PM
> > >> Subject: Fw: Andrew Brown on nun & chronology
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: Carolyn Kunin
> > >> To: Vladimir Nabokov Forum
> > >> Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 10:16 PM
> > >> Subject: Re: Andrew Brown on nun & chronology
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> A challenge to those who believe that the roommate is Hazel's:
> > >> Do you see any significance in the nun who turns up in Kinbote's
> > >> commentary to line 894 ("the widely circulated stuff about the nun")
or
> > >> any relationship between this nun and the roommate who has become
one?
> > >>
> > >> Andrew Brown's response:
> > >>
> > >> As for the nun disguise rumor mentioned in the commentary and the
> future
> > >> nun in the poem, the time frame doesn't lend itself to their being
the
> > >> same person. If an actual King Charles had escaped from Zembla
> disguised
> > >> as a nun, he could not have arrived at Wordsmith in the form of a
> "future
> > >> nun" while Hazel attended school.
> > >>
> > >> Dear Mr Brown,
> > >>
> > >> I did not mean to suggest that Charles had become Hazel's roommate
> > >> (bizarre idea and as you say, chronologically impossible since
Hazel's
> > >> death precedes the revolution in Zembla), rather that the nun who
turns
> > >> up in the commentary is Kinbote/Shade's memory of the roommate/nun.
To
> me
> > >> it was interesting that Shade associates the nun with a feeling of
> > >> discomfiture.
> > >>
> > >> How do you interpret the second appearance of the nun in the
commentary
> > >> is what I am asking.
> > >>
> > >> Carolyn Kunin
> > >>
> > >
>
From: "Andrew Brown" <as-brown@comcast.net>
> ---------------- Message requiring your approval (167
lines) ------------------
> Ms. Kunin,
>
> That's fascinating. I did not know that. I wouldn't be in the least
> surprised if that was in Nabokov's mind, or that he may have intended it
to
> be in Shade's mind.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "D. Barton Johnson" <chtodel@cox.net>
> To: <NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
> Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 12:46 PM
> Subject: Fw: Fw: Andrew Brown on nun & chronology
>
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Sergej Aksenov" <aksenov@onetel.net.uk>
> > To: <chtodel@COX.NET>
> > Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 5:56 AM
> > Subject: Fwd: Fw: Andrew Brown on nun & chronology
> >
> >
> > Dear Don, I believe my message below was lost. Could please you consider
> > posting it again?
> > Thanks
> > Sergej
> >
> > From: "L-Soft list server at UC Santa Barbara (1.8d)"
> > <LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
> > Date: Tue Nov 26, 2002 11:17:27 Europe/London
> > To: aksenov@onetel.net.uk
> > Subject: Message ("Your message dated Tue, 26 Nov 2002 23:17:27...")
> >
> > Your message dated Tue, 26 Nov 2002 23:17:27 +0000 with subject "Re:
> Fw:
> > Andrew Brown on nun & chronology" has been submitted to the moderator of
> the
> > NABOKV-L list: chtodel@COX.NET.
> >
> >
> > Begin forwarded message:
> >
> > > From: Sergej Aksenov <aksenov@onetel.net.uk>
> > > Date: Tue Nov 26, 2002 11:17:27 Europe/London
> > > To: Vladimir Nabokov Forum <NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
> > > Subject: Re: Fw: Andrew Brown on nun & chronology
> > >
> > > I don't know if it has been noted before (my apologies for the
> repetition
> > > if so), but I wonder if the rumour of the king escaping disguised as a
> nun
> > > can be a reference to the historic fact of Alexander Kerensky's
> (Russia's
> > > last prime minister deposed by Bolsheviks in 1917) escape from
> Petrograd,
> > > disguised as a woman.
> > >
> > > Sergej
> > >
> > > On Tuesday, November 26, 2002, at 03:15 , D. Barton Johnson wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: Andrew Brown
> > >> To: Vladimir Nabokov Forum
> > >> Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 6:39 PM
> > >> Subject: Re: Andrew Brown on nun & chronology
> > >>
> > >> Ms. Kunin,
> > >>
> > >> Here's how I read this. It's the professor of physics, " a so-called
> > Pink,
> > >> " who says claims "That sorry ruler is known to have escaped
disguised
> as
> > >> a nun."
> > >>
> > >> Shade then states that he has it from Kinbote (pointing) that the nun
> > >> story was a vulgar invention of the Extremists and their friends" to
> > >> conceal their (the Extremist's) discomfiture. The truth according to
> > >> Shade,
> > >> who got it from Kinbote, is that the King escaped not as a "pale
> > >> spinster"
> > >> but as an athlete in scarlet.
> > >>
> > >> So, a complete opposite: not pale spinster but red satyr considering
> the
> > >> King's apparently insatiable antics in Zembla and Kinbote's multiple
> ping
> > >> pong partners at Wordsmith. I think that Nabokov's intention in both
> > >> the reference to a future nun "roommate" (whose I don't know, but you
> > >> know my
> > >> thoughts on this word choice) sitting with Hazel, and the second
> > >> reference,
> > >> in the commentary, to a fake nun, are both separate statements of
> about
> > >> a certain tupe of marginal person -- non-sexual persons.
> > >>
> > >> In the first case, with Hazel, her companion would naturally, to
Shade,
> > >> be a fellow non-participant in life's amatory games, and in the
second
> > >> case,
> > >> the least probable disguise for a randy king (and a choice of
disguise
> > >> that would presumably be the most annoying to the exiled king who has
> to
> > >> suffer the imputation of having resorted to it) would be that of a
> woman
> > >> and a non-sexual woman at that.
> > >>
> > >> What I think is most interesting in this couple of pages of
commentary
> is
> > >> 1. Shade admitting to having been said to resemble the "slapdash
> > >> disheveled hag" in the cafeteria, and 2. the strange unease of "Good
> > >> Netochka" who is singularly uncomfortable during this exchange, and
who
> > >> "hastily" interrupts talk about the king to say, irrelevantly, that
the
> > >> Goldsworths are having a wonderful time.
> > >>
> > >> I think "Netochka" Natochdag is one of the most significant
characters
> in
> > >> the book. Note that he is not mentioned in the index.
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: D. Barton Johnson
> > >> To: NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU
> > >> Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 1:46 PM
> > >> Subject: Fw: Andrew Brown on nun & chronology
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: Carolyn Kunin
> > >> To: Vladimir Nabokov Forum
> > >> Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 10:16 PM
> > >> Subject: Re: Andrew Brown on nun & chronology
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> A challenge to those who believe that the roommate is Hazel's:
> > >> Do you see any significance in the nun who turns up in Kinbote's
> > >> commentary to line 894 ("the widely circulated stuff about the nun")
or
> > >> any relationship between this nun and the roommate who has become
one?
> > >>
> > >> Andrew Brown's response:
> > >>
> > >> As for the nun disguise rumor mentioned in the commentary and the
> future
> > >> nun in the poem, the time frame doesn't lend itself to their being
the
> > >> same person. If an actual King Charles had escaped from Zembla
> disguised
> > >> as a nun, he could not have arrived at Wordsmith in the form of a
> "future
> > >> nun" while Hazel attended school.
> > >>
> > >> Dear Mr Brown,
> > >>
> > >> I did not mean to suggest that Charles had become Hazel's roommate
> > >> (bizarre idea and as you say, chronologically impossible since
Hazel's
> > >> death precedes the revolution in Zembla), rather that the nun who
turns
> > >> up in the commentary is Kinbote/Shade's memory of the roommate/nun.
To
> me
> > >> it was interesting that Shade associates the nun with a feeling of
> > >> discomfiture.
> > >>
> > >> How do you interpret the second appearance of the nun in the
commentary
> > >> is what I am asking.
> > >>
> > >> Carolyn Kunin
> > >>
> > >
>