Subject
Frieddman's comments onBB's response to VNA's response to BB's
response
response
From
Date
Body
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Friedman" <jerry_friedman@yahoo.com>
To: "Vladimir Nabokov Forum" <NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 3:50 PM
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Brian Boyd (FOA ENG)
> > To: 'Vladimir Nabokov Forum'
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 4:54 AM
> > Subject: RE: BB's response to VNA's response to BB's response
>
> [snip discussion of evolution]
>
> > My responses to Ms Alexander's responses to my comments on Nabokov:
> >
>
> [more snips]
>
> > VNA: patterns that Kinbote could have cooked up himself
> >
> > BB: But Nabokov repeatedly inserts patterns he makes clear to us are
> > beyond Kinbote, because Kinbote is not responsible for them (names and
> > facts like Dulwich Road),
>
> If Kinbote makes up the famous avenue of trees, or at least its
> warm-weather trees, especially the phoenix or date palm, which couldn't
> grow in Appalachia, I don't see why he couldn't make up Dulwich Road.
>
> (The corroboration that he makes up the whole avenue of trees is that he
> mentions having in Cedarn a list of all the trees mentioned in
> Shakespeare. The only objection I can think of is that the phoenix--an
> interesting association of green leaves and Phoenician purple or red with
> the themes of fire and resurrection [though a comparatively futile kind
> without metamorphosis]--might be growing in a greenhouse. With all due
> hesitation in pronouncing on what the mad Kinbote might do, I think it's
> out of character for him to pass up describing a greenhouse, especially if
> it's a rather unusual one built mainly for a single slender tree. If it
> weren't too late, I'd ask you to stop me if everyone knows all this
> already.)
>
> > because he doesn't know certain things (like
> > taxonomy),
>
> We don't know any more about his knowledge of taxonomy than we do about
> Shade's knowledge of Russian. If you're talking about scientific names of
> butterflies and orchids--since Kinbote invents the whole scene with the
> encyclopedia picture of King Charles the Beloved, he seems capable of
> throwing dust in our eyes about his knowledge of taxonomy. In a sentence
> recently posted by Savely Senderovich in a different context (where I
> don't understand it), "what reason do you have to trust Kinbote?"
>
> On the other hand, I don't see his possible motive here. So I actually
> don't think Kinbote is responsible for the scientific-name allusions in
> Nitra and Indra, Disa and Embla, but doesn't it look more like Nabokov's
> signature than Hazel's?
>
> Though if it is Hazel's, it brings up a charming picture of the afterlife.
> We have no reason to think she knows the kind of taxonomy that shows up
> mysteriously in the Commentary. If she doesn't, then apparently the
> Beyond has lepidopteral and botanical reference books or some more
> transcendental equivalent, and apparently she chooses to spend her time or
> some more transcendental equivalent in studying them. Still, I can more
> easily see those references as being directly from VN.
>
> > because he is too vain to introduce anything he would
> > recognize as counting against him, and so on.
>
> Surely he realizes that his spying on the Shades counts against him, as do
> his crying and his "petulant" (I hope I'm remembering the word
> right--anyway it's not a self-approving one) pencil stroke when
> disappointed. I suppose the frozen mud and the burrowing (?) in filth
> every day should be taken as Byronic vanity.
>
> [more snips]
>
> As you might have guessed, I recently read your book on _Pale Fire_.
> Thank you very much for pointing out red/green patterns, Indra/Nitra,
> Disa/Embla, and many many other things I had never noticed! I join
> Victoria Alexander in being convinced that there are ghosts afoot; I just
> don't see as many of them as you do.
>
> --
> Jerry Friedman actually thought of bringing _Pale Fire_ and _Nabokov's
> Pale Fire_ to work today, and now wishes he had.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
> http://finance.yahoo.com
From: "Jerry Friedman" <jerry_friedman@yahoo.com>
To: "Vladimir Nabokov Forum" <NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 3:50 PM
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Brian Boyd (FOA ENG)
> > To: 'Vladimir Nabokov Forum'
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 4:54 AM
> > Subject: RE: BB's response to VNA's response to BB's response
>
> [snip discussion of evolution]
>
> > My responses to Ms Alexander's responses to my comments on Nabokov:
> >
>
> [more snips]
>
> > VNA: patterns that Kinbote could have cooked up himself
> >
> > BB: But Nabokov repeatedly inserts patterns he makes clear to us are
> > beyond Kinbote, because Kinbote is not responsible for them (names and
> > facts like Dulwich Road),
>
> If Kinbote makes up the famous avenue of trees, or at least its
> warm-weather trees, especially the phoenix or date palm, which couldn't
> grow in Appalachia, I don't see why he couldn't make up Dulwich Road.
>
> (The corroboration that he makes up the whole avenue of trees is that he
> mentions having in Cedarn a list of all the trees mentioned in
> Shakespeare. The only objection I can think of is that the phoenix--an
> interesting association of green leaves and Phoenician purple or red with
> the themes of fire and resurrection [though a comparatively futile kind
> without metamorphosis]--might be growing in a greenhouse. With all due
> hesitation in pronouncing on what the mad Kinbote might do, I think it's
> out of character for him to pass up describing a greenhouse, especially if
> it's a rather unusual one built mainly for a single slender tree. If it
> weren't too late, I'd ask you to stop me if everyone knows all this
> already.)
>
> > because he doesn't know certain things (like
> > taxonomy),
>
> We don't know any more about his knowledge of taxonomy than we do about
> Shade's knowledge of Russian. If you're talking about scientific names of
> butterflies and orchids--since Kinbote invents the whole scene with the
> encyclopedia picture of King Charles the Beloved, he seems capable of
> throwing dust in our eyes about his knowledge of taxonomy. In a sentence
> recently posted by Savely Senderovich in a different context (where I
> don't understand it), "what reason do you have to trust Kinbote?"
>
> On the other hand, I don't see his possible motive here. So I actually
> don't think Kinbote is responsible for the scientific-name allusions in
> Nitra and Indra, Disa and Embla, but doesn't it look more like Nabokov's
> signature than Hazel's?
>
> Though if it is Hazel's, it brings up a charming picture of the afterlife.
> We have no reason to think she knows the kind of taxonomy that shows up
> mysteriously in the Commentary. If she doesn't, then apparently the
> Beyond has lepidopteral and botanical reference books or some more
> transcendental equivalent, and apparently she chooses to spend her time or
> some more transcendental equivalent in studying them. Still, I can more
> easily see those references as being directly from VN.
>
> > because he is too vain to introduce anything he would
> > recognize as counting against him, and so on.
>
> Surely he realizes that his spying on the Shades counts against him, as do
> his crying and his "petulant" (I hope I'm remembering the word
> right--anyway it's not a self-approving one) pencil stroke when
> disappointed. I suppose the frozen mud and the burrowing (?) in filth
> every day should be taken as Byronic vanity.
>
> [more snips]
>
> As you might have guessed, I recently read your book on _Pale Fire_.
> Thank you very much for pointing out red/green patterns, Indra/Nitra,
> Disa/Embla, and many many other things I had never noticed! I join
> Victoria Alexander in being convinced that there are ghosts afoot; I just
> don't see as many of them as you do.
>
> --
> Jerry Friedman actually thought of bringing _Pale Fire_ and _Nabokov's
> Pale Fire_ to work today, and now wishes he had.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
> http://finance.yahoo.com